Is this possible? Standing headroom, trailerable, AND seaworthy?

jason -and the arguenauts said:
Need to be carefull about "seaworthyness". This is primarily related to size - in other words a 40ft bav will be safer in bad weather than (say) a 27ft Vancouver assuming competent crew and that no equipment fails. So even if you can find a 20 footer to suit your requirements, you will still need to treat it like a big dinghy from the safety point of view.
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I agree in general about seaworthiness going up with size - many people looking to go long distances go for small but very tough boats - Vertues, Vancouver 27/28 etc, but a bigger but less well built boat will usually have a better motion, virtually always make faster passages, and might well be in harbour at the end of a passage while the smaller boat is having a hard time in a storm. If you really are determined to go in harms way the small but bulletproof boat has advantages, but most people choose to make coastal passages in good 'weather windows', and ocean passages at the right time of year for the relevant bit of water.
 
robmchugh said:
Have you considered the MacGregor 26...
Just an idea
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Yeah, I did look into that, and just not my cup of tea!

Searush said:
There are dozens of boats out there that will do you....
Westerly 22... W25... Rowan... Leisures... Jaguars... Etap23... Jeneau 23... Sadler 26...
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Thanks, good post, a lot of info. Sadler was possibly on my list- it's what I consider a 'proper boat' although it seems marginal in both headroom and trailerability.
Also I agree with your point about not narrowing down to a single specific model... I made that mistake with cars once, and ended up with an expensive lemon. Never again!

LeonF said:
I have spoken to many trailer sailer owners who said in the end they never trailed and sailed much because of all the hassle of doing it....

I wouldn't let the costs of craning etc deter you..join a sailing club, get a swinging mooring. At my club, soon to have a huge number of new deep water moorings, we, like many other clubs, hire in a crane for the day, costs about £40 for a lift,each way.
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Just to reiterate, I'm not planning on 'trailer sailing'. I find even my Wayfarer to be too much hassle to launch/recover with each trip- it spends long periods of time on a mooring instead.
What I want is the ability to take the boat home at the end of the season, or whenever I like, even if it takes a whole day to complete the operation.
You must have cheap crane hire... or a big boat club. Up here it's about £500 for the crane and with it being a small place you just have to team up with as many people as you can, but even so they can only lift so many in a day. And what if I want a different day? Plus the council-owned hardstanding is £300 for winter for storage, for a completely unsecure site with no electricity, and that site is probably being lost next year anyway. I just much prefer the idea of being self-sufficient and being able to sit the boat in my driveway to work on it over the winter.
 
Noone has mentioned the Trapper 24 or 240 a trailerable boat , goodish looks and sails very well; The Trapper 500 is a proper boat and had some recent PBO reviews of them;not really trailerable but modern looking, good headroom, reasonably priced ,and very good sailing performance too.
I've raced my Westerly Tiger(25') against both and had very good competitive sailing with them. The Tiger has all the headroom you could want,but is fin keeled and with the Westerly 'look' - but a wolf in sheep's clothing, a cruiser/racer if you like.
Few of us are able to have the luxury of taking our yachts home to work on, I'd tend to spend too much time on her getting everything perfect before I decided to sail, but OK ,if you have the facility and space,and time thats fine.
I reckon that with the cost of moorings/marinas these days I'd want to maximise the use of the boat and not be tied to just a 6 month sailing year,even if as this year only 3 months could really be regarded as a summer. Slipping a boat against piles between tides every 3 months for a powerwash and touch up of the antifouling , and some preventive maintenance ,whilst high and dry for the 10 hours period, suits me fine and virtually free of expense.
 
Stornaway.
Nor wishing to suggest breaking the law. Do the plod have a weighbridge up there to check loaded weight?
The suggestion of a 27 foot boat at 2800Kgs is going to be a law breaker unless you strip all your gear off it at the end of the season before trailing it. The limit including trailer is 3500Kgs and there are regulations coming into force re: tachographs for the heavier trailer/vehicle combos.

How about this?
Lorry mounted crane with 15 tonne payload All you need is a yard cradle to go on the truck.
 
A few ideas

Similar situation to you a few years back. The compramise is headroom, but the Parker 21 is a lovely boat. Etap 22 has a lot going for it. Dehler 22 and 25 are wonderful (I had a 22 for several years) - don't be put off by the water ballast, they are really stiff boats in a blow and sail upwind wonderfully.

A sub 25fter with a trailer and lift keel is the best solution if you want to watch the £££ - you can get a cheapish mooring and trailer home at winter. No crane costs, no yard fees and you can drop the mast to do any work yourself. It is also rather nice to have your boat parked outside in the winter to potter around and do all those jobs - so much more efficient when it is at home. The trailerable keelboat option makes a huge difference to your expendature if that is a concern.

:-)
 
jwilson said:
I agree in general about seaworthiness going up with size - many people looking to go long distances go for small but very tough boats - Vertues, Vancouver 27/28 etc, but a bigger but less well built boat will usually have a better motion, virtually always make faster passages, and might well be in harbour at the end of a passage while the smaller boat is having a hard time in a storm. If you really are determined to go in harms way the small but bulletproof boat has advantages, but most people choose to make coastal passages in good 'weather windows', and ocean passages at the right time of year for the relevant bit of water.
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It's very much not an issue of comfort. Instead it's a matter of basic physics and energy transfer from breaking waves, and this relates to both weight and profile as well as strength of construction. So for the same basic design, a 40 ft yacht is safer than a 30 ft one - period.

But this comment from the OP has me worried " 'Seaworthiness' for me means both ruggedness (no pop tops!) and ability to right itself and make headway in big seas. Where I live, gales can spring up from nowhere, so I would not consider a boat that wasn't going to get me through at least a F8 without making it into an emergency situation. "

It's simply nonsense. F8 is survival conditions in a 40 ft yacht never mind a trailer sailer. If he buys a 20 ft trailer boat and tries to use it up there in a true F8 then most likely he will be in an emergency situation.
 
weaver_fish said:
Similar situation to you a few years back. The compramise is headroom, but the Parker 21 is a lovely boat. Etap 22 has a lot going for it. Dehler 22 and 25 are wonderful (I had a 22 for several years) - don't be put off by the water ballast, they are really stiff boats in a blow and sail upwind wonderfully. :-)
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Euan.. your old D22 Floosie is alive and well and living at Rutland Water not many yards from my D22. A D25 has appeared as well...which although only three feet longer than the 22 seems bigger than that somehow, and is a 'serious' boat that would do well in Scotland I reckon.

Incidentally I think jason makes a very valid point about 'seaworthiness'. If you want to go out in F8, buy a boat with RNLI painted on the side.

Tim
 
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jason -and the arguenauts said:
It's very much not an issue of comfort. Instead it's a matter of basic physics and energy transfer from breaking waves, and this relates to both weight and profile as well as strength of construction. So for the same basic design, a 40 ft yacht is safer than a 30 ft one - period.

But this comment from the OP has me worried " 'Seaworthiness' for me means both ruggedness (no pop tops!) and ability to right itself and make headway in big seas. Where I live, gales can spring up from nowhere, so I would not consider a boat that wasn't going to get me through at least a F8 without making it into an emergency situation. "

It's simply nonsense. F8 is survival conditions in a 40 ft yacht never mind a trailer sailer. If he buys a 20 ft trailer boat and tries to use it up there in a true F8 then most likely he will be in an emergency situation.
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I've sailed through conditions that hit F8 last year, in a 33ft yacht, and we had a hard but enjoyable sail. Wouldn't have set out if we'd known it would get so bad (expected F6-7) but it was hardly an 'emergency'. I'm not expecting anything trailerable (btw a Sadler or Contessa 26 just about fits my criteria) to cope quite as well, but at the same time I don't want to be calling the coastguard any time the wind gets up.
 
Lakesailor said:
Stornaway.
Nor wishing to suggest breaking the law. Do the plod have a weighbridge up there to check loaded weight?
The suggestion of a 27 foot boat at 2800Kgs is going to be a law breaker unless you strip all your gear off it at the end of the season before trailing it. The limit including trailer is 3500Kgs and there are regulations coming into force re: tachographs for the heavier trailer/vehicle combos.

How about this?
Lorry mounted crane with 15 tonne payload All you need is a yard cradle to go on the truck.
Click to expand...

Oh it's Stornoway, by the way :D
We do have a weighbridge, not heard of anybody being pulled over. I don't really want to be caught by the fuzz! I was aware of the 3.5t limit and am not seriously considering any 27ft boat to be suitable.
One questio on weights- I've read that the trialer should be 40% of the boat weight. How strict is this rule? Just curious, as it limits me to 2,100kg if the rule is accurate.
 
alexrunic said:
how about a Macwester Rowan 22

standing headroom
weight approx 2.5 tonnes
very seaworthy
inboard engine
separate heads
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Too heavy, I'm afraid.
Also, not to drag this thread off topic, and apologies for my ignorance, but why is an inboard an advantage? Better handling under power? Prop better placed for good power in a swell? Just most of my yachty friends seem to spend a lot of time swearing at their inboard diesels and are frequently to be seen with oil stains up to their armpits after a bit of wrestling with 'the beast'. It has sort of put me off inboards!
This is all said as a dinghy sailor who has never owned a marine engine in his life!
 
Seems like you have the same approach that I had when I went from dinghy/windsurf to boat with berths - a trailerable, seaworthy small keelboat that I could take home easily in winter, or put in a farm somewhere on the cheap if funds ran out.

Well, for me it all worked out exactly like I wanted - not only easy & cheap to get the boat out and home, but can get the mast down and back up alone in a trice (A-frame) and have moved her from North Germany, to home in Brightlingsea & to Lisbon as the need arised with no hassle at all thanks to a few great Essex mates with a white van.

My solution was the Etap 22, and I am very happy with her still 6 yrs on - admitedly the standing headroom in one place was a bit easier for me at 5'3'' :) But I agree with previous poster, a tarp tent over the cockpit at anchor gives me much more headroom & an extra room, so not a big issue.

Now I don't have a problem with taking her out in winter - she stays in all year :)

Seaworthiness - with her 40% ballast lifting keel with bulb max draft 1.5m she can and has easily handle strong winds and waves ('seaworthiness' subjective but have sailed in the bay here with F8 & nasty steep short waves with no worries), but sharp motions mean I wouldn't like to have to handle it for days, i.e she could probably handle it but could I?

I like Etaps, so maybe a 23? And maybe the evolution 25 or 26 worth looking at?

Anyway, just wanted to say that this line of thought can work out really, really well.

Good luck, and have fun

PS outboard in a well in front of rudder is also a great solution
 
I missed the bit about Stornaway originally. It makes quite a difference don't it! You may need to lash her down to ground anchors to keep her on the trailer in winter!

Outboards Vs inboards

Most existing o/b (ie come with an old boat) are 2stroke - expensive fuel - liable to get oiled plugs if run slowly for long periods
O/b are generally transom mounted - & will often come out of the water in overfalls or other short sea situations
O/b are exposed on the transom & can be swamped, plus more sensitive to electrics failure
O/b are relatively easy to take home & service
O/b will not produce anything useful in the way of battery charging capacity
O/b out of water when not in use = no prop drag

I/B Diesel
A properly maintained diesel with clean fuel is totally reliable & a good starter - think how often you see people heaving on O/b starter cords . .
I/b diesel is generally much heavier than an O/b - may be a problem in a small boat
I/b diesel can be hard to access for servicing.
Diesel engines are expensive to replace or for major rebuilds.

My Westerly 25 had a trolley mounted Johnson 9.9 o/b in a stern locker that could be lifted in & out of the water easily - no holes in the hull & no prop in the water when sailing. But I was glad of the inboard when I got the Pentland. It had a charging system that produced useable amounts of power, starting by key from the helm was a major benefit - turn the key & you have drive immediately, no hanging over the stern lowering the engine, pumping fuel, setting the choke, pulling cords etc etc.

You pays your money & takes your choice.
 
Trailer Sailers

Don't consider a McGregor 26 they are not a real sailing boat. ie poor windward performance especially in a blow. They rely heavily on the o/b engine for safety in a blow. They are really designed for placid lakes.

Re safety in a small boat. I would say that smaller boats are in themselves more robust with shorter mast and heavier for their size construction. However it is the humans inside that suffer in rough water in the lively motion of a small boat. The whole boat is likely to become unsafe because the crew make bad decisions under the effects of the wild motion. So ultimately bigger is better. olewill
 
Hunter Horizon 26, just ok weight wise, ticks all the boxes, Cat B, separate heads, inboard engine ( some with outboards) and sails well.
I towed mine home each winter for a number of years,
 
Our Hunter Delta 25 pretty well ticks all the Op's origional criteria and ours comes home for a few months every year on its trailer. Had our out in a 7 several times and it could clearly cope with more if you were the type that like to do that sort of thing. PM me if you want more info.
 
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