Is there a market for a high quality UK/EU built cuddy?

Whitelighter

Whitelighter

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And no, this isnt another business venture /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif. I was just pondering (now that I am back to smaller boats for a while) that all the 22/23ft craft seem to be from the US. Now, while these boats are perfectly good and servicable, I got to wondering if there was a market for a really well thought out, high quality small boat from a UK or EU manufacturer.

Just because I want a small day boat, doesnt mean I dont want something that is innovative and really well finished. No deference to the US boats (I have owned a few and been happy with them) but there are areas where you can see the cost savings.

Just a thought...
 
I think there is, but costs are a massive issue. Fletcher have been building cuddys for years but like for like they are 20-30% more expensive than US cuddys

I think the Scandinavians have got this sector of the market covered, even at the inflated prices that this kind of quality costs.
 
Also Jeanneau and Beneteau, plus Karnic, are well established in this territory

To answer the Q, yes I think a Euro product would be attactive becuase Mercans cannot quite do Euro styling and Europeans want Euro styling. But it is a v price competitive market so the price just has to be right
 
Yes, the Jeanneau CC boats are ok, but the finish is quite basic, as are the Karnics. Nothing wrong with them, but tjust a utilitarian finish.

I guess what I was asking, is there room for a Fairline/Princess quality 22-24ft boat? If it comes down to price I guess not.

Is it only new boaters who buy small boats, and if so do they all go for maximum size for the buck (or pound/euro)?
 
Take a look at Sessa's range, they have upped their game in terms of quality and innovation, they have some great sub 30 foot boats. Agree re the Jeanneau CC, i've driven one several times and handles like a rib but the finish isn't quite their although their layouts work. I think the economics are largely stacked against innovative high quality 22 footers though since all the innovation and effort can only command some much of a premium at that end of the market. This is why the bigger brands go larger to gain more margin for the effort.
 
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Is it only new boaters who buy small boats, and if so do they all go for maximum size for the buck (or pound/euro)?

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I think there is a small market for trailboaters like myself, I love the freedom of having your boat on a trailer. This month alone I have spent a week on a Scottish Loch, a weekend in Wales and a day on the Upper River Dee. So its not just new boaters that buy small boats.

But trailboating isnt for eveyone, and there are times I would love to be able to just nip out on the boat for an hour or so without all the prep that goes into a trailboat trip.

I would buy a 22ft Fairline/Princess but as well as the cost issue, the better the quality the heavier the boat will be.

My current thinking is to try an outboard powered boat next, because they are lighter. I really like both the Yanmarin 64/68 Daycruiser and the Bella 64DC.
 
I thought the Westline was this and that is why you were importing them??

What has happened to them?
 
it is/was - though the bots are quirky in other areas. As to what happened, the market kind of fell apart around me and we had a few differences with the manufacturer so I pulled the plug.

I was looking at a Maxum at the weekend and wondered if the market really ws there for a traditional cuddy, but from a higher quality manufacturer.
 
Hmm, I think you might find that you might be right when the market begins to recover. I would suggest that the reset button has been pushed on the whole boating market as has happened in the housing market. Newbies will more likely enter the market not at the 30ft and 40ft sizes as happened over the last 7 year but will enter boating at the 20 something end of the market as a simple cost of fun asset ratio to income then it will take a good few years before the whole market begins to trade up again. Credit we know won't be cheap again for a while so big fun assets will cost a lot unless you are a cash buyer. The cost of production of boats is likely to increase pushing overall new values up also. We have already seen this with the EU £ exchange rate fluctuations.

I would guess that when the boating market picks up again it will be in boat in the sub 30 foot category. Sealine will do well to keep their S25 in production pity that Fline abandoned the 30 ft market a while ago and ditto princess. Perhaps we might see new entry level products introduced again by the big players or have the successfully transitioned to the high end and therefore do not need deal flow from newbies on up grade paths.

Whatever happens it is going to be an interesting time in the next three years in the marine industry. Will re-sale values recover also to stimulate the market. Some postulate that because fewer new production boats will be produced that supply and demand economics will drive second hand prices back up?
 
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Just a thought...

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Short answer = no idea /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

But what about "refinishing" foreign built boats to your / uk spec within the UK (plus a list of non-factory spec options?) - maybe a formal link up to a foreign builder who could supply at the right (cheaper?!) spec for you to then enhance -- and then see what the demand is before the factory builds to your spec or you try and go it alone.

Just a thought.............
 
the main aspect is production costs IMO,
Most of the big high Q boats are manually assembled,
very litle of the work is automated

some of the costs are more or less the same on bigger or a small boat, fitting the engines, fitting the electronics, fitting all deck stuff etc. Unless you go for automated mass production.

even a modern organised and semi automated company like Bavaria has left the sub 25ft market.

on top of that each EU country has a few of these small local mostly utilitarian boat manufactureres that again take a share from the market

so I think the EU market is too small to buyld <23ft HQ boats in a profittable way,
while there are a few french and scandinavians who still do a very good job
all IMHO
 
Jez,

The problem is that the US companies recognised this first so companies like Chapparal, Monterey and Regal produce better quality cuddys. Then you have the Dorals (which are Scandi prices) and you have a full complement. The Sessa range is good European quality and the Bene Flyer range is good as well. If I was buying a 25ft european cuddy I would look at the Sessa Key Largo 25! If you want something smaller look at Cobalt,Chapparal, Monterey and Regal.

Having had a Maxum 22ft and a Chaparral 21ft cuddy there are good usable (most compromised) boats around.

Cheers

Paul /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Sorry to hear that...i loved that 24fter

Keep having a little glimpse of here when i go to chi marina.

Its all down to costings on the small stuff. When you have the yanks who build them in their sleep and buying all the switch gear, covers, windows, fittings, fixtures in a serious bulk order as they have a massive market. Then can get the manufacturing costs right down.

The builders all belong to a buying group so they can go to engine suppliers, window makers etc and say we want 3,000 units how much discount.

European builders dont have as much clout so if they were to build a sub 23ft boat i think it would be the wrong side of £40k. Average US sub 23ft £27-30k
 
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Sealine will do well to keep their S25 in production

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Umm.. The S25 was quietly dropped by Sealine some while back. This I think answers your question JB; If Sealine can't justify keeping the S25 in production, I can't see how an even smaller boat built to a similar standard in the UK/EU would be anything other than prohibitively expensive. I suppose if it were a real groundbreaking design it would have appeal, but how to make a broundbreaking cuddy... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif I strongly suspect that most folk would prefer to buy something a bit bigger for their £££££ than a top notch cuddy, which, lets face it, is always going to be cramped no matter how well built and furnished. Maybe if it were a cat... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
When the Sealine S24 was in production, I was speaking to one of the Sealine head office bods, and he confided that the S240/S24 made them almost zero profit on each sale, but got people hooked on the brand to trade up, which is where the money was.

The S23/S25 tried again, with a "grid" system bonding the deck to the hull, to increase rigidity for a given amount of fibreglass and reduce production costs, but still: almost bugger all profit, hence Brunswick pulling the plug.

Nowadays, there is less brand loyalty imho: people are just as likely to switch brands on a trade up, so somewhat less point trying to pursue that strategy.
 
Yes,

But what Sealine did well was the 'Guaranteed Trade in' at the price you paid within 2 years. That kept a lot of very loyal people. I believe that Sunseeker do it on their larger yachts as well.

Paul /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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