Is the RNLI getting to remote from its Raison d'être

superheat6k

superheat6k

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Seems a lot of nonsense has now led to the RNLI driving its offshore boat away from St Helier station today. The RNLI is quite literally taking its bat home. That this boat was largely financed by the good people of Jersey is another matter entirely.

I am certainly not sure how this helps mariners in trouble, which is why I pay my monthly subscription as a Governor Member of the RNLI.

I do not know enough about the real reason behind all this nonsense, but what the RNLI did today I find beyond the pale.

I am seriously considering resigning my membership in favour of my local lifeboat where I can at least see my contribution paying for equipment and crew training rather than Directors' salaries and cosseted lifestyles I could only dream about.

Before I move to that stage I do feel I need to understand the full picture here. Can anyone assist with this ? I have read the thread on scuttlebutt but feel I need to also consider the views of others here too. Is my contribution being best assigned presently ?
 
No comment on Jersey since I know nothing about it beyond what’s been posted here. I’m sure neither side is blameless though.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the way the RNLI handles its finances - but I would observe that your donation will make much more of a difference to an independent than it will to the RNLI. Many of them seem to be permanently struggling to keep their boats and crews properly maintained and equipped, whereas an RNLI station can be issued a brand-new outboard, inflatable, or pickup truck next-day from stock if required (or so said the RNLI storeman my mate worked with on some promotional videos). Again, it's a credit to the RNLI that they're in a position to do that, not a bad thing, but it suggests to me where a helping hand may be needed more.

Pete
 
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As Governors don't we technically have some say in how the RNLI is run? Perhaps it is time to start taking an active interest and lobbying for change.
 
I haven’t bothered attending any previous AGM’s - this could be about to change.
I’m fairly certain that resigning gives you a smaller voice to lobby for any kind of change.

Sending someone who the crew would have respected to thank them for doing a great job, calm things down and remind them that there are limits, would have been a good move. Instead, we have a lifeboat that has gone back to Poole, a station closed, and a replacement crew in training.

Summary from the Jersey Evening Post:

“Last year allegations were made against Coxswain Andy Hibbs by members of the RNLI and another business in Jersey, that he had launched the lifeboat without authorisation. The JEP understands the accusations related to the lifeboat being used to go out to sea to spread someone’s ashes. It later transpired Mr Hibbs was actually out on his own personal boat at the time of the alleged illegal launch and was cleared of any alleged wrong-doing.

In a statement, the RNLI crew say the investigation into Mr Hibbs was launched on ‘false information’ and that it should ‘not have taken place in the first place.’

Angry, Mr Hibbs, a volunteer of 25 years, wanted to know who had made the accusations, what information had been given and why. He sent emails to RNLI headquarters staff which the charity deemed inappropriate and in April he was sacked after an RNLI employee travelled to the Island.

Months later Mr Hibbs was re-instated following an apology by the RNLI. A new station manager role was set up for a 12-month period to help bridge the gap between the St Helier crew and the RNLI in the UK. But the crew say the appointee ‘had no real interaction with the crew’ because of commitments in the UK and was often away for ‘weeks at a time’.

Issues surrounding Mr Hibbs’ sacking continue to stew in the background and later the crew lodged an official complaint with the RNLI as to how the original investigation into Mr Hibbs had been handled. The crew’s medical adviser and second deputy coxswain also quit having grown frustrated with ongoing issues.

After hearing the crew’s complaint had not been upheld the volunteers met and agreed they would tell the RNLI they wanted to go it alone.”
 
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In answer to OP. Can you imagine trying to run your business, which in my opinion it essentially is, when the workforce is volunteers. I dont know the ins and outs of this debacle but I can sympathise with the RNLI on this score. It must be a HR nightmare particularly as the type of volunteer you require is by nature one that is not easily cowed or given to being directed by nature. I think a lot of credit needs to be given that this sort of grievance is not much for frequent. So have they gone beyond the pale. I dont think so. Have they cocked up in this particular instance. Possibly...? Is it justified to have a kneejerk reaction. I dont think so at this point. I'm sure it will all go into the mill as grist and come out as lessons learned.
 
Its a complex situation and all the facts are not in the public domain yet. The local crew are very well respected though. What concerns me in all of this is that lives have been put at risk because of a dispute. That is not acceptable under any circumstances.
 
That though is not the fault of the RNLI. They didn't walk out, the crew did. The RNLI withdrew the boat as a service as they couldn't safely launch it. IMO that is acceptable and again IMO the responsible thing to do.
 
I can’t comment on this particular issue, but just want to say what a wonderful service the RNLI does around our waters. We leisure boaters have much to thank this organisation for, and I will continue to contribute. This issue needs a speedy resolution, so that normal service can be resumed.
 
My reading of it is

RNLI Cocks up following standard procedure to the letter
RNLI admits cock up and issues full apology
Crew dont think it's enough
Crew declares divorce proceedings
RNLI follows procedure and puts out grass leave.

Think of it as a hospital trust where the staff say they are all transferring to an independent.
You close the hospital transferring all patients to neighbouring hospitals in the trust and wind down. You dont wait for the exodus, nor can you rely on the disgruntled, even if their grievance is just.
 
The boat is the property of the RNLI.
Whatevever the storyline - the outcome is there has been a loss of trust between the RNLI and the crew. The RNLI is just protecting its property.
However good the crew were (and are) they really cannot expect to just do what they want when they want with an RNLI asset.

Whoever handled this whole situation in Poole should be sacked.
 
NormanB said:
The boat is the property of the RNLI.
Whatevever the storyline - the outcome is there has been a loss of trust between the RNLI and the crew. The RNLI is just protecting its property.
However good the crew were (and are) they really cannot expect to just do what they want when they want with an RNLI asset.

Whoever handled this whole situation in Poole should be sacked.
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I'd agree up to the last point (unless you are more intimately acquainted with the facts), you might be correct but (speaking as someone who has spent much of his life working alongside volunteers in life threatening situations), just because someone is brave and a volunteer does not make them angels or automatically correct. In fact the same sort of personality traits that can lead to putting one’s self in harm’s way can, in other circumstances, become pig-headed stubbornness (qv several VC winners). There are two sides to this story.
 
Reading between the lines, Andy Hibbs does come across as a bit of a "character".
But it's the job of RNLI management to channel the talents of these people and keep them onside and engaged.
 
Does sound like a very difficult situation which the RNLI have handled reasonably well. I can fully sympathise with Andy Hibbs anger/frustration but any accusation has to be investigated.

Seems a shame that it has all blown up again when it seemed close to being resolved. I suspect the Jersey crew have too little experience of how a large organisation has to be run these days.
 
I have asked the RNLI directly what their view of the St Helier situation is. I daresay it will take them sometime to respond, as I imagine I am not alone in placing such a request.

I would add that I have heard other less favourable reports that they are simply becoming too large and seemingly non accountable. One example was the situation of their accommodation in Poole where it was reported they were more interested in generating a revenue from it than accommodating visiting crews under training.

I take Flowerpower's point about attending the AGM. The last had to be re-convened due to lack of voting members, but the next is I understand to be held in Scotland, which is simply impractical.

I set aside a fair but limited amount of money for support of the RNLI, but if they are over stacked with cash and are becoming less worried about how they do manage their estate than their perceived public image then perhaps I would be more effective in providing my support to an independent, of which we have one with an excellent reputation right here in Hamble.

I note the point about the direct ownership of the St Helier boat, but that somewhat misses the point that it was largely funded by the good folk of Jersey. Would they have funded it so willingly had it been based in Poole I wonder.

Voting with your feet does provide a massive one off statement that enough do it they should take notice. I also appreciate they do have to manage, and clearly there are two sides to this tale, and somewhere between them will lie the truth.
 
superheat6k said:
I have asked the RNLI directly what their view of the St Helier situation is. I daresay it will take them sometime to respond, as I imagine I am not alone in placing such a request.

I would add that I have heard other less favourable reports that they are simply becoming too large and seemingly non accountable. One example was the situation of their accommodation in Poole where it was reported they were more interested in generating a revenue from it than accommodating visiting crews under training.

I take Flowerpower's point about attending the AGM. The last had to be re-convened due to lack of voting members, but the next is I understand to be held in Scotland, which is simply impractical.

I set aside a fair but limited amount of money for support of the RNLI, but if they are over stacked with cash and are becoming less worried about how they do manage their estate than their perceived public image then perhaps I would be more effective in providing my support to an independent, of which we have one with an excellent reputation right here in Hamble.

I note the point about the direct ownership of the St Helier boat, but that somewhat misses the point that it was largely funded by the good folk of Jersey. Would they have funded it so willingly had it been based in Poole I wonder.

Voting with your feet does provide a massive one off statement that enough do it they should take notice. I also appreciate they do have to manage, and clearly there are two sides to this tale, and somewhere between them will lie the truth.
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There are a multitude of threads of scuttlebutt about the management of the RNLI mostly consisting of circular reputations of arguments and name-calling. There especially seems to be a lot of snide comments of about the pay packets of RNLI management but, as illustrated by the immediate issue it is a large and complex operation, and if you are capable of running such a set-up you deserve a commensurate pay package.

However, and here I speak as someone who has an offshore LB and a major shore establishment named after family members, whist I do wonder if it is particularly efficiently run, it is certainly in better shape than some of the larger armed forces related charities with which I have had dealings which seem to have morphed into organisations to provide comfortable employment for Maj (Rtd) Timothy Nice-Butdim MBE and his tri-service ilk.
 
Elecglitch said:
just because someone is brave and a volunteer does not make them angels or automatically correct. In fact the same sort of personality traits that can lead to putting one’s self in harm’s way can, in other circumstances, become pig-headed stubbornness (qv several VC winners).
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Very true, but dealing with difficult people is part of a manager's job, and regardless of the initial rights and wrongs allowing it to blow up like this is a management failure.

(IBM reputedly used to have an internal training course called "Dealing with Difficult People". By the time I was there (in the company, not on the course) it had been renamed to the less explicit "Dealing with Different People", but apparently the purpose and content were unchanged :) )

Pete
 
prv said:
Very true, but dealing with difficult people is part of a manager's job, and regardless of the initial rights and wrongs allowing it to blow up like this is a management failure.

(IBM reputedly used to have an internal training course called "Dealing with Difficult People". By the time I was there (in the company, not on the course) it had been renamed to the less explicit "Dealing with Different People", but apparently the purpose and content were unchanged :) )

Pete
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'There are no bad soldiers, only bad officers' a good sentiment but IMHO a trifle simplistic. Put another way, a mangment failure, quite possibly, but not necessarily a culpable one.
 
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