mainmarine
Well-Known Member
were they the Beverley sisters?
Is the Bav 34 under ruddered?
- Thread starter jimi
- Start date
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
The one Bev I know has a bad back.... can't think what has caused it....
Rustyknight
Well-Known Member
Not Bev.......
[ QUOTE ]
Dont encourage im we dont want those sort of pictures on here /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
But even "Jeanie Johnston" has her share of knockers.........
[ QUOTE ]
Dont encourage im we dont want those sort of pictures on here /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
But even "Jeanie Johnston" has her share of knockers.........
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
This is a very desirable feature.
When overpowered in a dinghy you luff up. Bavarias and many AWB's do this automatically!
What more could a man want?
When overpowered in a dinghy you luff up. Bavarias and many AWB's do this automatically!
What more could a man want?
Woodlouse
Well-Known Member
Well, all boats are she's, so wouldn't a man want one that did what he told her? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
sailorman
Well-Known Member
thats all very well but not so violent that one gets launched into low earth orbit /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
ColinHuggins
N/A
I do hope you've sorted out the wheat from the chaff here!
It's nothing to do with Bavs specifically, but modern hull shapes, so listen to what's been said by those who know.
I owned a Jouet with similar shape. If you want a hairy ride, strip everything out of the Bav, keep eveything up, and get her to plane but be warned: taking off at 15 knots in an AWB is not for the faint-hearted!
A little money would be usefully spent adding extra reef points and luff/leech Cunninghams so that you can adjust the main in small steps, the motto being to always reef early.
Enjoy!
merry Christmas too,
CJH
It's nothing to do with Bavs specifically, but modern hull shapes, so listen to what's been said by those who know.
I owned a Jouet with similar shape. If you want a hairy ride, strip everything out of the Bav, keep eveything up, and get her to plane but be warned: taking off at 15 knots in an AWB is not for the faint-hearted!
A little money would be usefully spent adding extra reef points and luff/leech Cunninghams so that you can adjust the main in small steps, the motto being to always reef early.
Enjoy!
merry Christmas too,
CJH
PeterGibbs
Well-Known Member
Norman's comments are pertinent.
Like most modern mass produced designs (of which I firmly approve) the Bavaria class these days is what commentators like to call a "Poweful rig" ie the displacement to sail area is designed to move the boat in pretty light airs. Genoas are typically 135% or more - a lot of canvas in a stiff breeze.
As the breeze gets up there is no point in hanging on to the canvas to " see what she will do" because she won't. It's time to shorten sail and keep the vessel upright. Modern designs have a lot more form stability, ie beam carried almost to the transom, and this helps a lot to keep her stiff as the wind gets up. But almost any vessel that is pushed to the point of vanishing side decks is being pushed beyond the designer's ambitions. Looks great on the calendars but is rubbish when you're on the tiller!
Cut the sail area and enjoy controlled and predictable sailing!
Under no circumstances muss with the rudder - even a small added area will require totally redesigning all the attachment points, tiller length or wheel mountings. A nightmare!
A related issue: why do skippers hang on to full main with a rising following wind? Like the frog slowly boiling in the pot as the water heats up, control is progressively lost to the helm and the air pressure becomes too great to bring the main down without great stress. With some there seems to be an underlying belief that he boat is not sailing to its potential if the main isn't in use at all times in all conditions: I think this is wrong. I get excellent performance on my Bavaria in breezy conditions with just a genoa, sometimes poled out for extra stability - but control is maintained much better.
PWG
Like most modern mass produced designs (of which I firmly approve) the Bavaria class these days is what commentators like to call a "Poweful rig" ie the displacement to sail area is designed to move the boat in pretty light airs. Genoas are typically 135% or more - a lot of canvas in a stiff breeze.
As the breeze gets up there is no point in hanging on to the canvas to " see what she will do" because she won't. It's time to shorten sail and keep the vessel upright. Modern designs have a lot more form stability, ie beam carried almost to the transom, and this helps a lot to keep her stiff as the wind gets up. But almost any vessel that is pushed to the point of vanishing side decks is being pushed beyond the designer's ambitions. Looks great on the calendars but is rubbish when you're on the tiller!
Cut the sail area and enjoy controlled and predictable sailing!
Under no circumstances muss with the rudder - even a small added area will require totally redesigning all the attachment points, tiller length or wheel mountings. A nightmare!
A related issue: why do skippers hang on to full main with a rising following wind? Like the frog slowly boiling in the pot as the water heats up, control is progressively lost to the helm and the air pressure becomes too great to bring the main down without great stress. With some there seems to be an underlying belief that he boat is not sailing to its potential if the main isn't in use at all times in all conditions: I think this is wrong. I get excellent performance on my Bavaria in breezy conditions with just a genoa, sometimes poled out for extra stability - but control is maintained much better.
PWG
Clyde_Wanderer
Well-Known Member
Peter Gibbs.
You just mentioned something that has been swirling in my mind the last few days, and I meant to ask in my last post.
"Jenoa poled out. Can a spinniker pole be used to keep the head sail, or jenoa held out while running, as there is one on my boat, but no spinniker, do you think that the pole was intended for use on the jenoa? and how would it be set up?
Thanks, Eamonn.
You just mentioned something that has been swirling in my mind the last few days, and I meant to ask in my last post.
"Jenoa poled out. Can a spinniker pole be used to keep the head sail, or jenoa held out while running, as there is one on my boat, but no spinniker, do you think that the pole was intended for use on the jenoa? and how would it be set up?
Thanks, Eamonn.
Sgeir
Well-Known Member
I also have an aquaintance with a Bav34 who sails regularly in the West of Scotland, like all of us, up to F6 through choice, and above that through circumstance.
He reckons that the Bav34 actually performs very well in >30kts, provided an appropriate amount of sail is used ie properly reefed, and the sheets are used properly to trim the sail. He says he's never been flattened.
Certainly seen her go, under perfect control, very well in a 6. Much faster than us. Maybe your pal's just a crappy sailor.
He reckons that the Bav34 actually performs very well in >30kts, provided an appropriate amount of sail is used ie properly reefed, and the sheets are used properly to trim the sail. He says he's never been flattened.
Certainly seen her go, under perfect control, very well in a 6. Much faster than us. Maybe your pal's just a crappy sailor.
PeteCooper
Well-Known Member
Eamonn, until I bought my spinny I regularly poled out my genoa using the spinny pole and it made a dramatic difference to downwind speed. To set it up simply attach to mast and genoa sheet. I had to feed the pole through the shrouds if I was on or nearly on a dead run.
Norman_E
Well-Known Member
Re your last paragraph. I have sailed the Jeanneau 45.2 with just the genoa, but I now try always to use some mainsail and some genoa if the wind is strong. If on genoa alone it can be very difficult to wind it away without the mainsail to take some of the wind load off it, in addition it the gets very tightly wrapped. I can always get the main down afterwards by motoring head to wind whilst I drop the sail.
PeterGibbs
Well-Known Member
Eamonn,
Sure thing - anything goes, as loing as it works for your boat. In my case I have a normal pole that is the correct length to keep my foresail nicely held out to the wind. It clips onto the loop made by the sheet on the clew end of the sail. Sail angle is set by the sheet as normal
When shortening sail, I wind the furler in and the pole moves forward with it of course. Then with less wind in the sail it is relatively easy to clip off the pole and stow it.
This is a good steady setup in medium to heavy airs and with following seas there is much less chance of a quartering wave slewing the boat out of control. At night it is especially comforting - the helm can become very disoriented if the boat is thrown side on to following seas which can easily happen if carrying too much main.
Not long ago I encountered a big wind over tide as I approached den Helder in Holland with the wind over my transom. We motored ahead to make ground but had just the foresail set to give added heading as we ploughed into the heavy seas. It was pushing it, but it worked, and that at the end of the day is what it's about, it seems to me!
I don't see enough emphasis these days on KISS - keep it simple and strightforward. Finesssing keeps the crew amused but is nothing to do with safe secure sailing: for instance it can help to have an uphaul to the pole to give added stability, but it is going overboard to have a downhaul too - altogether too much string floating about to enjoy the ride! (I just love seeing fellow yachties struggling with their spinnakers, I have as much or more fun watching than they do! But I admit to getting a lot out of my cruising chute - well worth having!)
Have fun!
PWG
Sure thing - anything goes, as loing as it works for your boat. In my case I have a normal pole that is the correct length to keep my foresail nicely held out to the wind. It clips onto the loop made by the sheet on the clew end of the sail. Sail angle is set by the sheet as normal
When shortening sail, I wind the furler in and the pole moves forward with it of course. Then with less wind in the sail it is relatively easy to clip off the pole and stow it.
This is a good steady setup in medium to heavy airs and with following seas there is much less chance of a quartering wave slewing the boat out of control. At night it is especially comforting - the helm can become very disoriented if the boat is thrown side on to following seas which can easily happen if carrying too much main.
Not long ago I encountered a big wind over tide as I approached den Helder in Holland with the wind over my transom. We motored ahead to make ground but had just the foresail set to give added heading as we ploughed into the heavy seas. It was pushing it, but it worked, and that at the end of the day is what it's about, it seems to me!
I don't see enough emphasis these days on KISS - keep it simple and strightforward. Finesssing keeps the crew amused but is nothing to do with safe secure sailing: for instance it can help to have an uphaul to the pole to give added stability, but it is going overboard to have a downhaul too - altogether too much string floating about to enjoy the ride! (I just love seeing fellow yachties struggling with their spinnakers, I have as much or more fun watching than they do! But I admit to getting a lot out of my cruising chute - well worth having!)
Have fun!
PWG
jimi
Well-Known Member
I often use the pole as well with the genoa, I do find the uphaul useful particularly in there is a bit of a sea running as it helps to keep the pole at the clew of the genoa rather than starting to fall back down the sheet.
FullCircle
Well-Known Member
I have two rudders, and keep them both under the boat. Neither is, of itself, large enough to stop the boat rounding up in gusty bits. They are telling me that I am not sailing the boat the way the designer intended, and therefore I should amend my habits to match the boat, or stop sailing it and buy another.
The art of reefing has become second nature to us on FC, and can be achieved in seconds, out or in. Makes a very big difference.
The one that still catches me out is how fast the wind goes forward on a reach when you put the chute up, and then you accelerate straight into a mini broach.Tee Hee. So now I reef the main when putting the chute up in about 12-13 knots true, ease the mainsheet, and bring it back in to suit.
I am with the uphaul crowd, as Jimi is right about it sliding down the sheet. Also when gybing the chute, it helps the hapless foredeck to control the pole back onto the ring in the mast, which we bent this season.
The art of reefing has become second nature to us on FC, and can be achieved in seconds, out or in. Makes a very big difference.
The one that still catches me out is how fast the wind goes forward on a reach when you put the chute up, and then you accelerate straight into a mini broach.Tee Hee. So now I reef the main when putting the chute up in about 12-13 knots true, ease the mainsheet, and bring it back in to suit.
I am with the uphaul crowd, as Jimi is right about it sliding down the sheet. Also when gybing the chute, it helps the hapless foredeck to control the pole back onto the ring in the mast, which we bent this season.
Rob_Webb
Well-Known Member
This is one of the most well-informed, accurate and useful responses I've seen here for a while (for real). Good one.
sighmoon
Well-Known Member
If you want to slow down, dragging a big plank (such as a rudder) sidewards through the water is probably as effective as it gets.
I would reccomend your friend takes a dinghy out with no rudder. To steer to windward, you either (or both of) over power the main relative to the jib or lean the boat to leeward. (and vice versa to steer to leeward.).
I would reccomend your friend takes a dinghy out with no rudder. To steer to windward, you either (or both of) over power the main relative to the jib or lean the boat to leeward. (and vice versa to steer to leeward.).
Sea_dreamer
Well-Known Member
At last...
It is always interesting to watch those cruisers who have never raced, or have never sailed a dinghy. Being close to the water gives a real insight into how a boat works!
One of the things I try and remember is hydrodynamics. In other words think about the keel first, then the sails. Is the keel moving quickly through the water. You need to get up to speed, and then you will point. If you just point, you with quickly go sideways.
And the best way to keep the keel working efficiently is to keep it in the water. Which means keeping the boat level... or as near level as possible. If that is becoming difficult then flatten the sails or reef.
John
It is always interesting to watch those cruisers who have never raced, or have never sailed a dinghy. Being close to the water gives a real insight into how a boat works!
One of the things I try and remember is hydrodynamics. In other words think about the keel first, then the sails. Is the keel moving quickly through the water. You need to get up to speed, and then you will point. If you just point, you with quickly go sideways.
And the best way to keep the keel working efficiently is to keep it in the water. Which means keeping the boat level... or as near level as possible. If that is becoming difficult then flatten the sails or reef.
John
DeeGee
Well-Known Member
Surely, this depends on how asymmetric the shape of the wetted area of the hull is when heeled. With the older types, more pointy at either end, the asymmetry was less. In addition, with the more modern boat, providing room for 2-4 people in aft cabins, the extra space becomes bouyancy when heeled, and drags half the rudder out of the water at the same time - just when it is needed to counter the asymmetry. Old boats with counter sterns got longer when they heeled and the rudder stayed where it should be.
Someone said the longer narrow pointy both ends boats are more suited to sailing lee-rail under. They aren't really, they just get away with it easier, but reefing and getting the boat more upright is preferable in any boat.
IMHO of course /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Someone said the longer narrow pointy both ends boats are more suited to sailing lee-rail under. They aren't really, they just get away with it easier, but reefing and getting the boat more upright is preferable in any boat.
IMHO of course /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Talbot
Well-Known Member
Sailing upright is always preferable /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif