Is the Bav 34 under ruddered?

jimi

jimi

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I've nn acquaintance who has one and its pricipal vice is rounding up uncontollably in modest gusts. He is thinking of adding area to the rudder in attempt to cure this. Is that wise?
 
That'll just wreck the pintles and steering gear surely?

If it's the usual flat bottomed and tear-shaped boat then sail balance and avoiding certain broad-reach angles in gusty weather are about the best you can do.

At this stage of the Friday before Christmas, though, am I intruding into an in-joke???
 
THat was what I said to him as well! It would add stress that the boat was'nt designed for IMHO! However the shape is not disimilar to my own why does'nt have this voce now that the rudder works properly!
 
I am certainly willing to believe you have a flat bottom if you insist on telling me, but I'm not sure about you being a tear-shaped man. Sounds largely true but it would imply a very small head.
 
Git! I meant of course the shape of my Bennie. This of course implies,compared to my boat, that either the Bav heels more when pressed or if the angle heel is similar then that the rudder is too small. Is there any other factors?
 
It just means the Bav is faster and more stable than your boat dead downwind, as well as less smelly (secondhand info there, I admit)
 
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It just means the Bav is faster and more stable than your boat dead downwind

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Doot it, lad, doot it. In the summer SWMBO and I left Fowey in an Easterly F5/6 there was a speck rounding Dodman as we exited Fowey .. we passed it just before ST Anthony's .. must admit we rounded up once or twice .. but that was cos we has full sail up in 30+ knot gusts
 
Leave the rudder well alone!
If you are rounding up on a beam reach, then the boat must be over canvassed.
Has the main got a Cunningham, or a flattening reef, and can you adjust the outhaul tension? If yes, do a bit of experiementing.
If rounding up on a broad reach, then reef the main, or even get rid of it altogether - you might find you will go just as fast, and on a straighter course, with just the headsail pulling (ie with no sails 'pushing' as such from behind).
If rounding up going dead downwind, ummmm, get a new helmsperson? Move weight aft? Sell the boat? Buy a mobo?
 
I once did this on a much smaller cruiser but with similar general characteristics to current Bavarias - ie quite low ballast ratio and a lot of the stability coming from a wide beamed shallow bilged hullform.

I beefed up the rudder bearings and found that the handling was generally much improved, till one day I got laid absolutely flat (spreaders in the water) by a gust. The bigger and more importantly deeper rudder was allowing me to drive the boat harder and thus sail on a less stable part of the stability curve of the hull.

Virtually all modern mass production boats are like this: the cure is not a deeper or bigger rudder but more and/or lower keel weight. Unfortunately adding keel weight means the ntire structure and rig need to be stronger to cope with the extra streses, and that cost money, a lot more than the extra metal in the keel.
 
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Virtually all modern mass production boats are like this: the cure is not a deeper or bigger rudder but more and/or lower keel weight. Unfortunately adding keel weight means the ntire structure and rig need to be stronger to cope with the extra streses, and that cost money, a lot more than the extra metal in the keel.

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May I suggest an alternative cure. Less sail area. You ( any AWB ) will go faster and have a much more comfortable ride. Sailing on your ear is for long/deep keeled MAB's only.
 
Exactly. I have an AWB which is as good as any in terms of sailing ability, but it is at its best when sailed without excessive heel or too much canvas. I had a very good lesson about this before I bought my boat. I was sailing with a very skillful Turkish skipper and crew in an old Angus Primrose designed Moody 40. It had fairly inefficient roll round the boom reefing and quite old sails. We were reefed and overtook two Bavarias, the first a 42 footer that was going very slowly because it was too close hauled, and the second was a 44 footer that was on a course parallel to us. It had full sail up and the toe rail in the water, making leeway and could (indeed should) have easily outpaced us if it had been sailed more sensibly. The lesson for all owners of of the modern broad beamed flat hull section boats is that they are designed with a lot of initial form stability, but once heeled beyond a certain point they can lose speed, stability and directional stability. It is up to the skipper to understand this and set sail accordingly. Most of us are not good at the fine points of sail control, and many AWB's don't have refinements like a cunningham, so it is a case of accepting that you will not tweak the last half knot out of the boat all the time, and that the blunt instrument of reefing is the way to maintain control as the wind rises or becomes gusty.
 
Tell your chum to trim the mainsheet to keep the boat on her feet.

This simple procedure is made unnecessarily difficult in a Bavaria;
owing to the multitude of clutches and the absence of winches.

If you want a boat that will plough on regardless of the heel angle look for something with balanced waterlines: ie pointy at both ends. The ideal being a metacentroid from Dr Harrison Butler, which track so well you can't get them to turn corners!
 
Yep, I'll bet Lakey has pictures of an under-uddered Bev, an over-uddered Bev and a down-right perfectly-uddered Bev in his files. The only Bev I ever dated had pretty massive udders - but that was some time ago and time may be enhancing the mammer -- err memory.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
 
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