Is that a proper rigging check?

[Angele]

As part of my winter maintenance, I requested my local boatyard (a well known Solent name) to undertake a check of my standing rigging. I specifically requested them to retape the rigging screws while they were at it, as I could not see any point in me having to do a separate trip up the mast if they were going to do it anyway.

On relaunch I queried whether the rigging check had been done. I was told it had been. So I said "where is the report?" They went away and then carried out the inspection, as it had not been done.

I got the report and it is fine, but the old rigging tape is still there, gradually losing its adhesive quality and beginning to act like a wind indicator. I was a bit annoyed, since they had ignored my specific request to retape the rigging screws.

But, then I got thinking. Can you do a thorough standing rigging check without removing the tape to have a look underneath?

I'm thinking of going somewhere else next time ....

 

[prv]

Can you do a thorough standing rigging check without removing the tape to have a look underneath?

Depends what the tape is covering, I guess, which depends on your design of rigging screw. On KS's closed screws, the tape was just to cover the hole used for turning the barrel, to keep water out. I think you could do a fair inspection without removing that tape. But if the tape is covering split pins, then it seems to me that it should be removed to check the pins.

In your case I would definitely go somewhere else. Even if they were doing the work ok, you won't be able to fully trust them now.

Pete

 

[Angele]

Depends what the tape is covering, I guess, which depends on your design of rigging screw. On KS's closed screws, the tape was just to cover the hole used for turning the barrel, to keep water out. I think you could do a fair inspection without removing that tape. But if the tape is covering split pins, then it seems to me that it should be removed to check the pins.

In your case I would definitely go somewhere else. Even if they were doing the work ok, you won't be able to fully trust them now.

Pete

You are right. Trust is missing now. I was told they had done something until I asked to see the report. Then it became clear it had not been done.

The tape is covering split pins.

Just spoken to another specialist rigger in the area and, curiously, they said they would not remove the tape unless specifically requested. So, they don't seem to think it is essential to do so.

I think I will be using them in future in preference to my local boatyard.

 

[BelleSerene]

The tape is covering split pins.

Can you do a thorough standing rigging check without removing the tape to have a look underneath?

Clearly not.

If your new rigger says he wouldn't remove the existing tapes, then don't trust him either.

I do hope you haven't paid for the job that has not been done.

Best put behind you. Get a check from someone you can trust - and for peace of mind, check the evidence before paying. Good luck.

 

[Angele]

I do hope you haven't paid for the job that has not been done.

Not yet, because I only received the invoice yesterday (despite the fact that it is dated 31/5 - par for the course for them). However, they have now sent me the report (dated 15 May) and it includes a number of photos, some of which have clearly been taken from up the mast. So the job has been done, just not the way I would have liked it.

I don't think there is much I can do other than to pay up. Yes, I could kick up a fuss, but life is too short.

I will express my displeasure (as, indeed, I have already done), and vote with my feet.

 

[lustyd]

I don't think there is much I can do other than to pay up. Yes, I could kick up a fuss, but life is too short.

Hmmm, I wonder what makes them think they can get away with this sort of thing...

 

[oldbilbo]

I will express my displeasure (as, indeed, I have already done), and vote with my feet.

Where? A location might help some of us 'others' who would rather not find out the hard way who not to trust....

 

[Talulah]

I had a rigging check done by Performance Rigging based at Hamble Point.
It was very thorough/detailed. Photos of everything.
Ordinarily I wouldn't bother but the surveyor had requested one for the coding renewal.

 

[Angele]

Where? A location might help some of us 'others' who would rather not find out the hard way who not to trust....

Sorry, but I'd rather not name and shame as they are still doing some other (non-rigging) work for me and I want that finished, and a couple of other invoicing "issues" sorted. If I named them I would no longer have anything to incentivise a good outcome to those other issues.

It is a full-service boat yard, not just a rigger.

 

[Angele]

I had a rigging check done by Performance Rigging based at Hamble Point.
It was very thorough/detailed. Photos of everything.
Ordinarily I wouldn't bother but the surveyor had requested one for the coding renewal.

It was performance rigging that I called this morning for a second opinion. Interestingly it was they who said they wouldn't remove the old tape unless specifically requested so to do.

I can't fault the report that I got from the people who did the rigging check for me (once they actually got round to doing it, rather than just claiming they had): a clear explanation of what the check involves, albeit using standard wording and including a disclaimer around "hidden defects"; annotated photos of any areas of concern; and a conclusion.

One thing narked me a bit: "the age of the standing rigging is not determined. If it is known to be more than 10 years old...." Hang on, the boat was commissioned in 2005. So, I just ignore that bit.

 

[Angele]

Hmmm, I wonder what makes them think they can get away with this sort of thing...

Only just noticed the sarcastic smiley. I thought you were being serious.

I asked for a rigging check and a rigging check is what I got. The problem is that I have a differing view as to what a rigging check should entail than they do.

My original instruction that asked for the rigging check did specifically ask them to tape up rigging screws. That has not been done - probably because my instructions were not passed on to the riggers verbatim. However, I doubt I can justify withholding the full cost of the works just because they missed that bit. And remember all that horrid marine law around liens until debts paid in full. I don't want to go down next weekend only to find they have padlocked my boat to the pontoon. (Might get to test out the wire cutters though, I suppose).

 

[benjenbav]

What does a rigging check normally involve? Metallurgical tests or just a visual inspection of the integrity?

 

[Angele]

What does a rigging check normally involve? Metallurgical tests or just a visual inspection of the integrity?

From the report:

Standing rigging
This report is based on a thorough visual examination of the standing rigging especially where the end terminals are fitted. It also indicates a
general condition of the mast and rigging, at the date of the inspection.
All components are closely checked in the areas where bending fatigue is most likely to occur:
a. Components removed from the mast:
For wire assemblies this is a visual check at the point where the stay enters the fitted end terminal. For rod assemblies this is by a visual check
only for wear and corrosion to cold head if the end terminals can be opened.
b. Components attached to the mast in situ:
For both wire and rod, alignment checks are made and where possible freedom of movement is checked. Wire end terminals are checked as
above and rigging screws and toggles are checked for alignment and security.

 

[Neil_Y]

Interesting, as well as the standing rigging check if someone is up the mast I'd be looking for feedback on play in sheave bushes/end float and thrust washer wear if there are any, wear on sheaves especially any that have wire halyards, chafing on roller head sail fittings/halyard and free movement of the top fitting. Mast head and steaming/deck light checks, cabling connectors (possibly re lubricate with silicon grease/clean connectors) check security of fixings (radar reflector/aerials/windex etc) . Spreader base mounting movement and fixings. Inspection where rigging passes through fittings such as spreaders. Once they are down also a report on goose neck,kicker,pole fittings. As well as re tape of any taped pins/fittings.

Whilst you are up there it adds no time to check everything, maybe I need to start offering rig checks?

 

[lustyd]

Only just noticed the sarcastic smiley. I thought you were being serious.

I asked for a rigging check and a rigging check is what I got. The problem is that I have a differing view as to what a rigging check should entail than they do.

My original instruction that asked for the rigging check did specifically ask them to tape up rigging screws. That has not been done - probably because my instructions were not passed on to the riggers verbatim. However, I doubt I can justify withholding the full cost of the works just because they missed that bit. And remember all that horrid marine law around liens until debts paid in full. I don't want to go down next weekend only to find they have padlocked my boat to the pontoon. (Might get to test out the wire cutters though, I suppose).

It was more about the fact the didn't even do one initially rather than the quality of what you got. I still think that if they are taking money then they need to be thorough and take some responsibility but the fact they didn't even do the job initially is partly down to people just accepting these things because it's easier. Not saying I'd do more but then I'm never surprised by poor service and usually don't even bother with "professionals" as a result.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

But, then I got thinking. Can you do a thorough standing rigging check without removing the tape to have a look underneath?

.

Simple. No you cant.

 

[Jamesuk]

Generally speaking to do a proper Rig check the mast has to come down, of course that is as far as Rod rigging goes, (every 5 years).

The best way to get work done is to be close by to oversee the jobs requested to do.

 

[sarabande]

"corrosion to cold head if the end terminals"

what is "cold head" please ? Post #13

 

[Bosun Higgs]

What does a rigging check normally involve? Metallurgical tests or just a visual inspection of the integrity?

Unless you are talking real big expensive boats where you could justify the use of x rays for example, a rigging check will be visual. Sure there are people who check the electrical resistance of the wire where it enters a terminal in the hope of finding any weak connections but personally I dont have too much confidence in that approach.

So the check is visual, looking for cracks and broken strands and bent wire / terminals, using a magnifying glass or even crack detection sprays. The check should include the fittings in the mast as well as the rigging itself. A good rigger would also comment on issues like the articulation of connections such as on the forestay.

If you are of a practical frame of mind, its something you can do for yourself but personally I do not see how it can be done as thoroughly as I would like with the mast up. How can you check the terminals properly when they are in the sockets on the mast?

 

[Bosun Higgs]

"corrosion to cold head if the end terminals"

what is "cold head" please ? Post #13

At a guess they are referring to the cold formed or cold headed ends of the wire or rod. The hexagon shaped bits on the tops of bolts are usually formed by cold heading ie cold forging and its the same with the shapes at the end of rigging fittings.