Is sail really a cheaper alternative to power ?

Iraq

  • Yes

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  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
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A 40' race boat might spend a great deal on sails, but £50,000 seems a bit extreme. But, compared to what a F1 team will spend on tyres, it's probably dirt cheap.

A full race set would include quite a few sails, including several No.1's of different strength and cut and a number of spinnakers.

Typical practice is that once they're past their best they're used as second-line sails for less important races and after they're no good for that are used for training sessions.

One point re your other comments. Even on a race boat it is normal to have Dacron sails for heavy weather (especially during offshore racing) or for deliveries, so if you do decide to invest in flash Kevlar sails for your hypothetical sailing boat it'll be better to have dacron sails to protect them from F7-8 winds. They are more vulnerable than dacron to being over-stretched.
 
sail costs are very much a factor of the material they are made from, and the time before replacement is not a fixed number of miles, but again is dependent on the material, and also on the way they are used. If you are a boy racer, forever using a sail that is too light for the conditions, it will stretch or even split.

For long term cruising, I would buy sails made from Dacron reinforced with Spectra.

For racing, they use much more exotic materials at much more exotic prices.

For accomodation equivalent to a 36ft motorboat you need a 35 ft catamaran! or a 50 ft mono.

There have been a number of these shift back to sailing type threads recently, but nobody has discussed an alternate concept such as the Nordhaven 46MS
 
I think its a mistake to simply think of sailing as a replacement for powerboating.... If you just think, I need as much accomodation as on my 36 foot princess, then you are gonna miss the point....

Sailing is different.... its more about the journey, versus with a powerboat its more about the destination....

Sailing is something you do... versus something that happens...

So, I think that if you are just thinking, well sailing will be cheaper, your missing the point....

If you and your family will hate the sailing, then in the long run the value will be much worse, if they enjoy the sailing then the accomodation will be secondary....

Peeps on here saying that you need 50 feet to replace a 36 footer are being silly...(In the nicest possible way) Sailing yachts are used differently from Power boats, priorities are different, we went from a S34 into a 31 foot sailboat, and its smaller, but Im pretty conviced that we would have pretty much the same space if we had a 36 foot bavaria...

I figure if you had something like a Sun Oddysey 42 DS then you would find that the space would be fine.....

Heres a virtually new Elan 434, just add the nav gear...

And that Elan is not a cheap boat.... A 42 foot bavaria will be 20-30 k less.......

If you buy a new or nearly new boat, odds are you will change the boat before you need to change the sails..

Sailing CAN undoubtedly be less expensive, less depreciation, less maintanence, less fuel..... but like an boating activity, its as expensive as you want it to be!

Take the family on a charter, get some stinking big 45 footer in the BVI's, they will love it (Or hate it) and then youll know!

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

dont worry about the weather windows.... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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If you're wanting to go out in 6's and 7's a lot then I would suggest you don't want a roller genoa as your only foresail - a special sail for the conditions you're expecting would be far more efficient and give you longer lifetime on the larger sails. - The main should reef down ok though.



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I'm intrigued by your comment.
When I am occasionally out in a six or so, i furl my genny to say a third of it's full sail area in a jiffy and compliment my small craft on her ability to handle the rough stuff - are you suggesting that a furling genny will not endure such use ? Or that I am using my sail for conditions for which it was not designed? It does not seem to be showing any ill effects so far after a number of seasons in my ownership.

What is the alternative ? - carry a hanked storm sail for bending on if one can manage to do so in the conditions? Does this require the removal of the furling sail?
Please elaborate for the uninformed!!
 
Converting the wife to a 42ft Jeanneau on a sunny weekend is not going to be too difficult but realistically sunny weekends are few and far between and we need space on a rainy weekend to keep interest throughout the year.

Having overcome the cost per mile of sails berthing costs are going to be the next stumbling block
If I need a cat or a 50ft mono the mooring costs will wipe out any fuel savings not to mention the loss of ability to sail single handed if the conditions are too rough and the crew decide to fly home.

The wind isnt free, I need another rethink . /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

thanks for everyones input /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
serves you right for listening to someone at a reputable club.
If you want good advice about sailing use this(highly dubious)forum or go to the local bars where real sailors drink real beer and charge for their advice what its worth.
 
Get a boat that sails well, is half the cost of the Princess, then take a big holiday in the Sun every year at christmas with the money you save.... Swmbo will be fine with that. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I'm sorry, I cannot complete your sexist poll.

I agree with much of what has been said before. You don't need brand spanking new expensive sails to go cruising. Plenty of people sailing around happily with 20 year old sails.

Also agree with sailing being about the journey, not the destination. As a sailing friend once said to me 'if you wanted to get anywhere in a hurry, you wouldn't go there in a sailing boat'.

Compared with motorboating, sailing is a totally different sport. Much, much more than a budget consideraton.
 
OOps, sorry /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Never gave it a thought, I did include partner which could include male partner or husband /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I am keen to continue to enjoy the water with my family on board, I dont mind occasional bad weather forcing us apart for a return trip but I dont want to end up boating every weekend with a load of mates, leaving my family at home.

My wife used to sail but but I have noticed many boat crews are male only.

I assume they are not all gay so many must have wives who remain at home.
 
No sorry, even swapping 'partner' for 'wife' still can't complete poll.

It would make any companion look like a real wimp. I skipper my own boat and take anyone - male or female - who enjoys sailing with me as crew. Wouldn't dream of dragging anyone along under sufferance. What would be the point?

Your poll implies sailing is a sport exclusively enjoyed my men and endured by their other halves. It may be true in some cases, but by no means all.
 
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When I am occasionally out in a six or so, i furl my genny to say a third of it's full sail area in a jiffy and compliment my small craft on her ability to handle the rough stuff - are you suggesting that a furling genny will not endure such use ?

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Keyword - Occasionally ..... Daka was first suggesting that he'd deliberately set out in those conditions - later on he qualified it by saying that he'd expect to be "caught out" in those conditions quite a bit.

Whilst a roller genny is perfectly capable of being used in a F6/7 it is not the best set sail and if you want to make any efficient progress to windward then a smaller jib set full is going to be more efficient than a larger genoa partially furled.

Options for setting would be to remove the larger sail and raise the new one - bit of a bum for stowage of the large sail, and handling it all - especially if at sea
Otherwise there are hank on, additional forestays etc etc

But as Daka only wanted to be prepared for the 6/7 then a roller genny will probably be fine .... a padded luff would probably be more cost effective than a complete replacement sail. If he was looking to set off in those conditions and endure them for quite some time then a smaller sail set would be my suggestion.
 
Dear God man will you stop doing the sums, I do not want to know, too late...

At least the telly gives you advance warning to look away now if you don't wish to see the results.

Though, there is a distinct difference between the two camps showing up here, I have never seen a raggie work out the cost of sails/rope/fuel per mile, we always tend to do it by time, galls per hour, years per sail, seasons per rope etc, time between service rather than distance.

Over on mobo I notice it is always as though comparing to road transport, nm per gallon, service, ray-bans per mile etc.

Weird how it has evolved, it is not a mobo thing, rather a leisure mobo, when I worked on commercial trawlers it was measured by time too.

Sorry, just chunnering...
 
Suspect that mobo's are used to driving hence mpg type costs, ignoring total cost of ownership, while others will factor in total cost over many years - not all mobo's obviously. There are quite a few financially astute owners on mobo, who either know the costs in detail, or just don't want to know, like many boat owners.
 
How true, if we all added up the real costs... there is no rationale reason to do it... One friend went from a squandron to an HR42 and never looked back, but he was retired so was not governed by the Friday and Sunday dash to and from the boat. We went from many years in aft cockpit boats to a 38 ft centre cockpit and with a cockpit enclosure the accomodation is fine. We are now going to downsize because our sailing patterns have changed, more day sailing. Maybe when I retire... who knows. Surprised nobody has suggested that Daka charter in the BVI's etc to try iot out. A few charters in different boats will soon inform his decision.

Iota
 
At the risk of joining the "I recommend what i've got brigade" I would recommend you seriously look at Deck Saloons as they do appear to be more similar to MoBo's with their larger windows.

My impression is that most sailing boats are more spartan inside than MoBo's but the extras list can improve things considerably.

SWMBO will not consider a conventional sailing boat now as she insists they are all too dark and dingy.

I also think DS tend to often have larger engines but still nowhere near as fast as MoBo's. Realistically passage planning on a 42+ ft sailing boat is 7kts with 6kts on a bad day (head wind & waves). I recently motored to Cherbourg and back, as I am not a purist and do not go places under 5-6kts. 176Nmls/26hrs and fuel cost £60 and equated to just under 3 litres per hour.

Much prefer it with engine off and a nice 8-9kt reach but that naughty wind just is so so fickle!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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Much prefer it with engine off and a nice 8-9kt reach but /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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I would have never bought a mobo if I could go anywhere @ 7-8 reach /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Its the beating against the tide that the killer .
 
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