Is rudder forward of prop a common configuration?

[RichardS]

We are moored next to a new Lagoon 450 in our relatively tiny 40 footer. I can see that the Lagoon has its rudders a long distance (over a metre I would guess) ahead of its props.

I've not seen this configuration before so it looks really strange. Obviously there will be no prop-wash over the rudder when going forward although that's not a big problem with two engines anyway.

I was wondering whether any monohulls have ever been designed like that? Presumably better handling in reverse, although that separation distance will perhaps not provide much prop wash, but a bit of a pig going forward since not possible to angle the rudders and blip the throttle to give the stern a push sideways?

Richard

 

[scottie]

But just think of the advantage of twin screw one fwd other back you can spin like a top

 

[sailorman]

Albin Vega has the same, a mind of their own in astern :disgust:

 

[Davy_S]

I was wondering whether any monohulls have ever been designed like that?

The Albin Vega has its rudder in front of the prop, reversing can be interesting!

 

[RichardS]

But just think of the advantage of twin screw one fwd other back you can spin like a top

That's true ..... but all twin engine cats can do that irrespective of the prop / rudder placement.

I didn't know about the Albin Vega although I would have thought that it would be good in reverse because of the prop-wash over the rudder. Thankfully I'm not a boat designer!

Richard

 

[Wansworth]

No the prop is just behind the rudder hence no prop wash effect and err an predictable going eastern, and turning going ahead at slow speed with the Albino Vega.

 

[Fantasie 19]

Albin Vega has the same, a mind of their own in astern :disgust:

..any small yacht powered by outboard would be the same configuration?? Until Dylan mentioned vectoring I used to have to make an appointment with the direction I wanted to go in reverse..

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Yep ... Albin Vega ... sailed one as a kid ..... reversing was ... interesting. Ours also had a variable pitch prop so if the engine was running it was always spinning .... nightmare for lobster pots and ropes.
Otherwise a great little yacht.

 

[Sybarite]

We are moored next to a new Lagoon 450 in our relatively tiny 40 footer. I can see that the Lagoon has its rudders a long distance (over a metre I would guess) ahead of its props.

I've not seen this configuration before so it looks really strange. Obviously there will be no prop-wash over the rudder when going forward although that's not a big problem with two engines anyway.

I was wondering whether any monohulls have ever been designed like that? Presumably better handling in reverse, although that separation distance will perhaps not provide much prop wash, but a bit of a pig going forward since not possible to angle the rudders and blip the throttle to give the stern a push sideways?

Richard

I have seen one on the hard. The prop looked very exposed.

 

[tony_lavelle]

My Beneteau Oceanis 311 with lifting keel had two rudders, so there was no prop wash in forward or reverse. There are lots of boats around like this.
You get used to it, though you have to ignore well-intentioned instructions from people on shore about how to manoevre the boat.

 

[ProDave]

..any small yacht powered by outboard would be the same configuration?? Until Dylan mentioned vectoring I used to have to make an appointment with the direction I wanted to go in reverse..

I can probably manoeuvre my boat more accurately astern in close quarters by vectoring the OB than I can forwards. The OB pulls, the boat follows.

 

[RichardS]

Yep ... Albin Vega ... sailed one as a kid ..... reversing was ... interesting. Ours also had a variable pitch prop so if the engine was running it was always spinning .... nightmare for lobster pots and ropes.
Otherwise a great little yacht.

Ah, I see what you Albin Vega posters mean. Not only is the prop aft of the rudder, the prop wash it creates in reverse barely streams over the rudder so it's not going to do backwards very well!

As Sybarite says, that propellor stuck out on its lonesome at the far aft of the Lagoon must be very exposed. At least my saildrives are immediately aft of the keels and not as deep so there is so protection although it's still easy to pick up lazy lines with the prop even though the rudders are on the aft side of them.

Surely that Lagoon must be a lazy line magnet 'cos if I can do it about once every 3 years I'm sure I could surpass that with the Lagoon.

It seems a strange design choice as I'm sure it has hydraulic or cable steering (like mine) so the rudders can go almost anywhere.

Richard

 

[Woodlouse]

The prop aft of the rudder arrangement such as on the Vega was pretty common when a long keel was pretty much the only option. If you didn't want a hole in your rudder then you either went for a wing prop or the prop shaft exiting above the rudder right next to the centre line. It's pretty frequently seen on 50's and 60's ocean racers.

 

[scottie]

Reminded of watching a brand new McGruer 8cr being launched engine started reverse gear engaged and the boat being hauled out PDQ as the over rudder propeller and shaft disappeared into the Gareloch. No pin through the coupling but plenty of red faces !