Is Power superior to sail

DAKA

DAKA

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 Jan 2005
Messages
9,258
Location
Nomadic
Visit site
I have often herd it said that sailing boats are more comfortable when it is rough but looking at this video I am not so sure.


How do you think your boat would have managed these conditions ?
Obviously 25knots is out the question but do you think you could sustain 10 knots, and at least keep pointing in the right direction ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKusg6Jyc9Y

Hypothetical question because a fast mobo wouldnt have to get caught out in these conditions unless the RNLI are on a rescue mission.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO6FEzVCIpc

Mobo looks like the better ride ?
















.
 
Difficult to draw comparisons for lots of reasons:

Raggie is in a following sea, RNLI boat is in a head sea
RNLI boat is in much worse conditions, raggie is in smaller waves and less strong winds
Raggie looks like a classic boat, RNLI boat is state of the art for those kind of conditions
Raggie video is of the boat from outside, RNLI video is of the outside from inside

I think a large planing mobo would be in serious trouble in the RNLI conditions, but would probably be just about OK in a following sea in the raggie video at displacement speed. I wouldn't want to be in either though.
 
Agree with Nick H.

In the extreme I would have a yacht any day. My experience in both types of boat in bad weather is that with a mobo, especially in a following sea, I am very concerned about a serious broach. Not a nice feeling having the sea lifting the aft quarter trying to toss the boat upsidedown. If it can't be recovered it's - game, set & match to the sea! In the yacht several tonnes of keel and and a closed hatch, makes me feel much safer.
 
Hmm, nice yacht - looks like they've lashed the wheel & gone below for dinner with so much weaving about going on. Maybe a bit over canvassed, trailing a hefty rope would calm things a bit. (No - just looked again - looks like winds dropped leaving a very lumpy sea running, so steerage a bit tricky maybe)

A mobo would be pretty insufferable in either unless v.v. large. Read Adlard Coles Heavy Weather Sailing, an oldie but as true today as 40 years ago.
 
Last edited:
those conditions are pretty bad, but a 55ft steel mobo like we had could cope with a force 7. powles 46 was very good. 37ft broom crown not so good. 45ft+ is the best.
 
I have long been a rag and stick man, sailing in heavy displacement yachts, who has aged into motor boats. The motion in either type of boat would be horrendous, but different. What is more important is which type of boat, of similar sizes, would be most capable of survival. Compared to a motor boat, a greater proportion of a sailing yacht is designed to be below water level and hence a lower proportion is designed to be above sea level, which means a lower freeboard. A lower freeboard means less resistance to wind and wave. Yes, that also means that the deck of a sailboat will be regularly swept by waves, but if it is well found that can be coped with. In the same conditions, a motor boat of a similar size, having a much greater freeboard, will be hit by by waves and will therefore suffer greater shocks.

I know that I would feel much safer in the sailing yacht.
 
Dunno, would think we've been out in stuff like that, certainly had more water over the top, even green sea over the windows for at least two minutes. Following seas, no problem at all, just keep the welly down. On the beam it's a bit helter skelter, but still 20 knots. It's only on the nose when it's time to slow down, so maybe better going another way.
 
The yacht is making hard work of it, with a broach in the latter part of the footage.
The seas are confused as well as large-ish, but a big mobo with reasonable power could ride the wave crest ok.

The head sea is a different story........no thanks
 
comfort or safety

I dont have much experience in different types of boat, but have done some sailing in a Westerly, own a Sealine F33, and did a summer crewing an old lifeboat (Lord Hurcombe at Dale Fort in Milford Haven).
Of these, I can without doubt say that the lifeboat made me feel safest despite very rough conditions (including being totally swamped by a wave over the bow with Robert Dougal the newsreader on board (anyone remember him?)), the yacht was next and the most comfortable, whilst the Sealine bobs like a cork and is uncomfortable especially if the waves get abeam, but I am pretty sure she will not sink!
My tuppence worth.
 
You can't compare a lifeboat to a pleasure mobo. Lifeboats are built for dealing with heavy weather whereas pleasure mobos are not. At the very least, the vast glass areas and forward sloping windscreen of a typical mobo make them vulnerable in heavy weather. Even I as a fully paid up petrolhead moboer would rather be in a well found yacht than in virtually any mobo apart from a lifeboat in a full gale. Yeah OK, a good planing hulled boat would handle the following sea conditions in the first video but, on any other heading, a mobo would be very uncomfortable
 
Some of the more serious damage to yachts comes when they catch a breaking wave or fall off a crest. In such conditions cabin top joints & windows are the weak points that break. That is why ocean passage making guidance often suggests making "storm covers" for your windows.

Almost ALL MoBos I have seen would be extremely susceptible to superstructure damage in such conditions. They have very large windows, often with thin pillars - and even patio doors FFS!

Very small boats are made safe for long distance passages by making them strong & well sealed - whatever happens. I might be happy in a BIG MoBo (like the QE11 or similar :D) but for something smaller, I would prefer a raggie every time.
 
I believe the story behind the sailing boat was that she was in serious trouble have been rolled or something in storm force 10 winds with a lot of damage. The video is from a lifeboat that went out to escort the boat back to harbour. She is possibly undercanvassed to not stress the rig and therefore probably has steerage challenges as well.

So you simply cannot compare a boat limping back to port with major damage after a much more serious incident not depicted in the video with a lifeboat on a regular run. This along with the other reasons listed above means this is simply an invalid comparison.
 
I dont think you can make a sweeping generalisation by saying yachts are better in heavy weather than mobos, because all yachts are not built the same, just like mobos.

Vessels like Halberg Rasseys, Hans Christiansens, and Nautor Swans which are proper sea going vessels, can't be compared to cheaply built, mass produced offerings (it may be offensive to name these brands) that are having their crews air winched to safety after the keel breaks off and the rig crashes to the deck.
 
I'd rather be in a sailing boat any day.At least if the engine breaks down you have the wind & sails to keep you pointing in the right direction.With a motor boat it would be curtains.
How would you stop it from going broadside on?:eek:
 
Depends on the yacht, and depends on the stinkpot. I'd happy sit in a Severn Class lifeboat in a storm, but would be more than a little concerned in a Sunseeker.

Likewise, if I was caught in a F10 in a Challenge 67 I'd just laugh and enjoy the ride, however the same situation in a Bavaria would really worry me.
 
Steady on, I have been accused of starting forum unrest between stinkers and raggies on occasions but a punch up between raggies here on the mobo forum would be a first even for me.

How do you rate the top of the range French sailing boats like Jeanneaux ?



Searush has a point about patio doors, I was crossing the wash with some friends in a NE7 and his doors popped out, spray and volvo soot poured in.

You can keep the QE2 though, I prefer shorter crossings and dashing between windows avoiding the worst weather.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0fQ1eWv36o&NR=1&feature=fvwp




.
 
I spent 20 years as a raggie and never felt worried in 6-7 but one trip in my mobo in similar conditions really worried me.

I have a Trawler style Mobo which has a great sea keeping hull, IMHO better than almost all of the modern mobos of the same size, that said large waves over the bow with windows like a greenhouse does make the heart pound a little.

I have been in conditions that put waves over the bow and then lift the rear to get the prop out of the water and never worried about the boat only the large area of glass that could very quickly disappear.

Given the choice of being out there in bad conditions I would choose a Yacht anytime, however, I feel a good old Nordhven would probably stand up well against a comparable sized Yacht but lets face it they are designed to cross Oceans, not a quick dash across the Channel for a bottle of wine.

Tom
 
IMO certain areas of fast Mobo-ing are a bit like boxing, they can't hurt you if they can't hit you.
In beam and following seas anyway, with the ability to be able to get up on top and control your speed, ducking and weaving around the big crests etc. certainly works for me.

I dare say statistically, most serious rough water incidences occur in the close coastal region rather than on deep ocean passages.
Our East Coast barways, where estuarys and rivers meet the sea, claim the slow moving vessels, by driving their keels into the sandy bottom whilst in troughs, with a big breaker bringing up the rear and turning them over. In these situations size does not matter, the bigger they are, the harder they roll!
The fast mobo (in the right hands) can crest ride at whatever speed the wave is running at, with a guaranteed several metres of 'moveable' depth below.
Head seas are always going to be a tough call, as you work against the massive energy of the sea (the big driving punch), imo a high-ish flared bow, although not a high rater as far as aesthetics are concerned, offers a reasonable compromise.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top