alec
New member
What does the team think then ?
Is owning a boatyard a licence to print money ?
- Thread starter alec
- Start date
BrendanS
Well-known member
No, only the mint have a licence to print money
ThereAndBack
New member
[ QUOTE ]
No, only the mint have a licence to print money
[/ QUOTE ]
Not so. Most money is printed by commercial organisations. DeLaRue is probably the biggest. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
No, only the mint have a licence to print money
[/ QUOTE ]
Not so. Most money is printed by commercial organisations. DeLaRue is probably the biggest. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Searush
New member
How many boatyard owners run supercars?
In my experience, most of the reason for high boatyard prices is due to inefficiencies. Poor processes, wasted materials (mostly paid for by customers), inadequate management control, insufficient training & poor communication. Most of which is exacerbated by very limited competition.
But I'm a retired management consultant, so what would I know? Hee Hee!
In my experience, most of the reason for high boatyard prices is due to inefficiencies. Poor processes, wasted materials (mostly paid for by customers), inadequate management control, insufficient training & poor communication. Most of which is exacerbated by very limited competition.
But I'm a retired management consultant, so what would I know? Hee Hee!
Phoenix of Hamble
Active member
Its a license to have to work while everyone else is out enjoying themselves IMHO......
alec
New member
If you have a slip, and enough hardstanding, it's hard to see how you could fail.
You do need a very high moan factor though. Seriously, even if you do nothing else the business comes to you with next to no advertising at all.
The ones that seem to have gone are 'Wooden' boatyards with little hardstanding.
Wish I had one.
You do need a very high moan factor though. Seriously, even if you do nothing else the business comes to you with next to no advertising at all.
The ones that seem to have gone are 'Wooden' boatyards with little hardstanding.
Wish I had one.
savageseadog
Well-known member
[ QUOTE ]
In my experience, most of the reason for high boatyard prices is due to inefficiencies. Poor processes, wasted materials (mostly paid for by customers), inadequate management control, insufficient training & poor communication. Most of which is exacerbated by very limited competition.
[/ QUOTE ] You're spot on with your analysis. I've seen some very poor work carried out by yards, electrical and electronic work can be particularly bad. Most yards don't pay adequate wages to retain well qualified staff, working conditions and equipment leave a lot to be desired too.
Other side of the coin is that the money is "leisure market" cash which means periodically people have/don't have money, chop and change what they are doing and argue about the bill. Difficult customers boat people, hard to please.
In my experience, most of the reason for high boatyard prices is due to inefficiencies. Poor processes, wasted materials (mostly paid for by customers), inadequate management control, insufficient training & poor communication. Most of which is exacerbated by very limited competition.
[/ QUOTE ] You're spot on with your analysis. I've seen some very poor work carried out by yards, electrical and electronic work can be particularly bad. Most yards don't pay adequate wages to retain well qualified staff, working conditions and equipment leave a lot to be desired too.
Other side of the coin is that the money is "leisure market" cash which means periodically people have/don't have money, chop and change what they are doing and argue about the bill. Difficult customers boat people, hard to please.
doris
Well-known member
You will find that all your customers are penny poinching [--word removed--] that are so mean you will never be able to pay the wages to get the staff to do the jobs that the whingers want. If you do the best staff will meet the customers then set up for themselves with no overheads and swerve vat. I feel you should buy a yard, there are several on the market!
tangofour
New member
It's no different in any industry these days. The driving factor in business these days is to cut every corner in pursuit of the last nickle of profit. Pay lower wages, supply the very minimum in the way of tools and work environment, pay lip service to customer satisfaction provided it doesn't cost money, run with the least redundancy, safety, quality that the business will stand or at least will stand until you have made your bonus and moved on to the next job.
Its really all our own fault, we have the society we deserve. In a time where the underlying philosophy is 'Stuff you, I've got mine' what more can you expect?
Simply put it's because very few people are satisfied with what they have got. We are driven by a simple mantra 'More!'
Sorry rant over, I'll p***s off to bed now.
Its really all our own fault, we have the society we deserve. In a time where the underlying philosophy is 'Stuff you, I've got mine' what more can you expect?
Simply put it's because very few people are satisfied with what they have got. We are driven by a simple mantra 'More!'
Sorry rant over, I'll p***s off to bed now.
Seagreen
New member
Yard sale? Not seen that on any signs. Pray tell me where so I can spend my kids' future on one!
bilbobaggins
N/A
There's a big one in Plymouth, been on the market some time.
'DSL', I think they call it....
/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
'DSL', I think they call it....
/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
boatbuilder
Active member
DML
alan006
New member
Wow, this topic seems to have hit a nerve. Perhaps it seems as if some yards do as little as possible and try to charge as much as they can, but I think they will not survive for long in todays market. People's expectations are rising all the time and if they feel that they are not getting value for money they are much more likely to leave boating and find another interest.
I think the boating industry is following the pattern of the automotive trade as it was 10 or 15 years ago. We can all remember going into garages that had piles of junk stacked everywhere, now they are tidy and well organised, but a lot more expensive!
For years charge out rates have been low from marinas compared to garages and as a result it has been hard to entice good youngsters into the marine sector. This is changing now with various schemes to increase the number of young people comming in.
I think it is partly true to say that compared to other industries traditionally marine engineering in many yards has been more casually organised than other industries. I think this is because most yards are asked to be all things to all people and so the advantages of speciallisation are not gained. I think that yards will become more efficent but more expensive and perhaps thats a shame as those unusual jobs that were taken on to get a customer out of trouble will be deemed uneconomic and who will do them?
If you look at the USA a couple of years ago a lot of the senior positions in the marine leisure sector were going to ex-motor executives. We seem to follow the states so lets see.
You've probably guessed what I do as a living, but let me just say I used to earn more money when I was an accountant.
I think the boating industry is following the pattern of the automotive trade as it was 10 or 15 years ago. We can all remember going into garages that had piles of junk stacked everywhere, now they are tidy and well organised, but a lot more expensive!
For years charge out rates have been low from marinas compared to garages and as a result it has been hard to entice good youngsters into the marine sector. This is changing now with various schemes to increase the number of young people comming in.
I think it is partly true to say that compared to other industries traditionally marine engineering in many yards has been more casually organised than other industries. I think this is because most yards are asked to be all things to all people and so the advantages of speciallisation are not gained. I think that yards will become more efficent but more expensive and perhaps thats a shame as those unusual jobs that were taken on to get a customer out of trouble will be deemed uneconomic and who will do them?
If you look at the USA a couple of years ago a lot of the senior positions in the marine leisure sector were going to ex-motor executives. We seem to follow the states so lets see.
You've probably guessed what I do as a living, but let me just say I used to earn more money when I was an accountant.
VicS
Well-known member
For a small bilge keeler on a drying mooring I am charged <ul type="square"> [*]£163 for the mooring, of which over half goes directly to the harbour authority in addition to the harbour dues I pay. [*]£52 for winter storage ashore. [*]£30 each way for lauching and hauling out. That includes loading onto a yard trolley and blocking off when hauled out. No extra charge is made for stepping/unstepping the mast. [/list]
There is no charge for dinghy storage, car parking or water supply but electricity is on coin in slot meters.
The mooring would actually accomodate a larger boat than mine.
There are about 40 moorings but a small number of boats come in from elsewhere for the winter.
I don't think after the rates and other overheads, the cost of maintenance of yard, equipment, buildings and the provision and maintenance of the mooring, an income for the yard owner and "wages" of his single part time employee, there is much left over to use to print money.
Perhaps you disagree!
There is no charge for dinghy storage, car parking or water supply but electricity is on coin in slot meters.
The mooring would actually accomodate a larger boat than mine.
There are about 40 moorings but a small number of boats come in from elsewhere for the winter.
I don't think after the rates and other overheads, the cost of maintenance of yard, equipment, buildings and the provision and maintenance of the mooring, an income for the yard owner and "wages" of his single part time employee, there is much left over to use to print money.
Perhaps you disagree!
Richard10002
Well-known member
[ QUOTE ]
It's no different in any industry these days. The driving factor in business these days is to cut every corner in pursuit of the last nickle of profit. Pay lower wages, supply the very minimum in the way of tools and work environment, pay lip service to customer satisfaction provided it doesn't cost money, run with the least redundancy, safety, quality that the business will stand or at least will stand until you have made your bonus and moved on to the next job.
Its really all our own fault, we have the society we deserve. In a time where the underlying philosophy is 'Stuff you, I've got mine' what more can you expect?
Simply put it's because very few people are satisfied with what they have got. We are driven by a simple mantra 'More!'
Sorry rant over, I'll p***s off to bed now.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's no different in any industry these days. The driving factor in business these days is to cut every corner in pursuit of the last nickle of profit. Pay lower wages, supply the very minimum in the way of tools and work environment, pay lip service to customer satisfaction provided it doesn't cost money, run with the least redundancy, safety, quality that the business will stand or at least will stand until you have made your bonus and moved on to the next job.
Its really all our own fault, we have the society we deserve. In a time where the underlying philosophy is 'Stuff you, I've got mine' what more can you expect?
Simply put it's because very few people are satisfied with what they have got. We are driven by a simple mantra 'More!'
Sorry rant over, I'll p***s off to bed now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Grajan
Member
I have been on both sides of the fence and can understand why some yards will not touch boats under 35' ask for deposits before work is done, have 6 week delays at the height of the season why because they are treated like second class citizens, have to wait 6 months for their money and then get it flung at them or the owner poaches the employee to do work as a "homer" not all owners act in this manner but it certainly wouldnt be tolerated in the automotive industry! Insurance companies who refuse to replace damaged yard equipment after staff have risked life limb and equipment, succesfully removing a damaged beached vessel from some remote beach.
on the other side of the coin being charged for 8 hours work when the keys for the boat were only logged out for 5 having to pay full working rate while journeyman has a discussion or a laugh and a joke with every second person on the pontoon then strips the wrong component , non availability of stock
The real problem is that it is a cottage industry with, in the norm a lot of really nice guys, they are not business men they wouldn't be in the boating industry if they were! Unfortunately there are very few people with the indepth knowledge that is required to work in this industry and the ones that have are inandated with work. virtually every boat is different and manufacturers never consider how items are to be replaced or repaired as engines fittings etc will all fail well within the life of the boat, to replace a cleat or fitting is nothing short of a miracle in some of todays craft and in general we as boat owners are not prepared to pay for the unseen skills and difficulties that are involved when working on our craft
so in my mind owning a yard is not a licence to print money but they do need to become more professional
on the other side of the coin being charged for 8 hours work when the keys for the boat were only logged out for 5 having to pay full working rate while journeyman has a discussion or a laugh and a joke with every second person on the pontoon then strips the wrong component , non availability of stock
The real problem is that it is a cottage industry with, in the norm a lot of really nice guys, they are not business men they wouldn't be in the boating industry if they were! Unfortunately there are very few people with the indepth knowledge that is required to work in this industry and the ones that have are inandated with work. virtually every boat is different and manufacturers never consider how items are to be replaced or repaired as engines fittings etc will all fail well within the life of the boat, to replace a cleat or fitting is nothing short of a miracle in some of todays craft and in general we as boat owners are not prepared to pay for the unseen skills and difficulties that are involved when working on our craft
so in my mind owning a yard is not a licence to print money but they do need to become more professional
Epirb23
New member
There's a lovely one in Bosham,Chi Harbour atm-just need to pay the rent as well! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
edit to say Grajan's comment above gets my respect.
edit to say Grajan's comment above gets my respect.
LymingtonPugwash
New member
[ QUOTE ]
Yard sale? Not seen that on any signs. Pray tell me where so I can spend my kids' future on one!
[/ QUOTE ]
No point in buying one in the UK.... if the idiot global warming doomsayers are to be believed, all UK boatyards will either be frozen over or vanish under the sea very soon, so not a very good investment! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Now..... if somebody would like to take on a boatyard (with attached marina) available in Greece, then pm me and I will consider letting you in on it! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Yard sale? Not seen that on any signs. Pray tell me where so I can spend my kids' future on one!
[/ QUOTE ]
No point in buying one in the UK.... if the idiot global warming doomsayers are to be believed, all UK boatyards will either be frozen over or vanish under the sea very soon, so not a very good investment! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Now..... if somebody would like to take on a boatyard (with attached marina) available in Greece, then pm me and I will consider letting you in on it! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
luddites
New member
- Joined
- 14 Sep 2004
- Messages
- 181
- Location
- Me river Blackwater boat river Deben
Nobody has mentioned the massive increased costs on yards due to health and safety legislation which just never stops coming. Your simple little job on deck becomes a major epic if H & S are around, (working at height regs). The big yards manage but it costs the earth, most smaller ones do their best but couldn't function at all if they followed the letter of the law.
Oen
New member
Well, the owner of the cheapest (and possibly smallest) marina on the Solent runs a Fairline Squadron for his leisure... You can make your own minds up on that one..!
