Is marinising worth it.

J

Jcorstorphine

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Some readers of this forum may recall various posting made about my “hand knitted” marine engine based on a Ford XLD 1600 Fiesta engine. In view of the trials and tribulations met, I thought it worthwhile listing the various costs I have incurred to try and establish the merits of going down the marinsising route.

Costs so far.

Basic Engine. £250 (Bought with head removed)
Top end gasket set £45
Marinsing kit £1250 (gbox, plate, bhousing, feet, mounts, manifold, Jabsco)
Alternator £40 (none on engine)
Extra flywheel mass £100 (engine produce high torsional vibration at low RPM)
1st Injector cleaning £120 (very loud knocking from engine casued by leaking injectors)
Head rebuild £350 (cambelt broke)
2nd Injector clean £40 (debris one of the injectors)
Injection pump service £325 (break up of CAV injection pump)

In all, that amounts to £2400 and having an engine which I have no faith in. If I need to get the bottom end done, that will set me back a further £1000.

Bottom line, never again. next time, if there ever is one, will be a brand new engine.

John
 
Sounds very like you were just unlucky in the original engine purchase, from what you posted all your problems trace back to the engine.

My only experiences with Ford engines were a brand new marinised petrol cross-flow - fantastic engine so I got lucky, and those in cars - a load of rubbish with limited mileage before something dramatic happened. All the Ford Company car experience I had was unreliable diesel cars, mostly attributable to the engines!

From what I have read elsewhere a lot of folk have marinised Peugeot diesels and those seem to be a good base unit.

So perhaps Ford for petrol might work ok, and Peugeot for diesel?

I'm sorry for you and your problems, you must feel gutted.
 
Sorry to read of your problems. It will be little comfort to you that my 1987 1.6 XLD is in good shape for several thousand hours and over the years has been little trouble. Still has good oil pressure when hot and oil lasts about 3/4 years between changes on routine testing.
Biggest expense over the years has been a second hand Bowmen heat exchanger, she has also needed a new alternator and starter.
The only problem on the horizon is the wiring cores in the looms are getting a little corroded and the internal resistance is begining to affect voltages.

So all I can say is that you should have a good reliable engine now if the bottom end is sound. I take it you have a new cam belt etc.



Brian
 
It would appear the only expenditure to date was the additional weight added to the flywheel, and that's normally just a machined ring bolted to the flywheel and balanced, 200 squids a bit rich.

Conversion costs should consist of items like manifolds and heat exchangers etc. There are still many 'home made' converted engines running well in older boats.

As others have indicated, it sounds like most of your costs were in repairs to engine rather than the cost of converting.
 
I think that if I were buying a vehicle engine for marinising that I would want to hear it run. The guy who sold it to you knew of problems. Ebay has been a good source of marinising parts for me. In the past I have bought a Bowman FM49 heat exchanger for £50, Gearbox heat exchangers for £50 a pair, a full Lehman 380 cu.in. Dover engine with BW g/box for £210, a Beta Marine BD3 complete with Newage PRM box for £310, a Bowman BL250 heat exchanger for £63, a Ford 4D for £150 including mechanical box, guy thought was seized, but starter was jammed. Good Dover engines fetch £300, 4D's £500. A new engine costs £2700 upwards. Fork truck breakers are a good source of adapter plates and tractor breakers engine parts. You made the decision to spend more than the cost of purchasing another engine on fettling, what amounts to a throw away engine. I never trust an engine that throws a cam belt again. As you have pointed out most of the problems stem from that.
 
Was it worth it.

Thanks for all the comments.

As many of you have said, the problems all stem from the base engine. Sadly I was not able to see the engine run as the head was off. However that did give me a chance to see the bores and they were perfect so that may have installed a false sense of security in buying the unit.

Also as one reply mentioned, do I trust the engine after so many problems? The answer is no so I am not sure where I will go from here.

John
 
Jcorstorphine said:
Thanks for all the comments.

As many of you have said, the problems all stem from the base engine. Sadly I was not able to see the engine run as the head was off. However that did give me a chance to see the bores and they were perfect so that may have installed a false sense of security in buying the unit.

Also as one reply mentioned, do I trust the engine after so many problems? The answer is no so I am not sure where I will go from here.

John
Click to expand...

Bad luck John, I have had a little look around at what engines are currently available and IMHO a strong contender for a boat engine is the FORD 2.5 TDI unit which is not a ford engine at all (apparently). I am attracted to it because most of the important bits (camshatfs, injection pumps) are driven by gears so will be very reliable long lived and will not be prone to the failure of that rubber band! It has a long ancillary drive belt that should provide lots of oportunity for additional kit like water maker pumps, air con, 2nd alternator etc or just dont use them. I personaly dont like turbos on boats and this engine has one - but its hard to find an engine without one these days.

I dont know - BUT you may find that many of the marinisation parts you have will fit that engine.

look here for a look at it.

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/engines/tdi/TDIDismantle.pdf
 
Peugeot engine

would go with the thought about peugeot engines, my VP MD21A is 35 year old based on a peugeot diesel and runs fine. I am thinking about it and would favour a normally aspirated 1.9l diesel as a replacement in my boat if when it comes I can't justify a new engine.

Now that you have gone the ford route I would stick with it, you have all the bits

Have you thoght about buying a scrap car where you can hear the engine running

and then pulling out the engine and scrapping the rest.

A crash right off would be ideal.
 
Jcorstorphine said:
Some readers of this forum may recall various posting made about my “hand knitted” marine engine based on a Ford XLD 1600 Fiesta engine. In view of the trials and tribulations met, I thought it worthwhile listing the various costs I have incurred to try and establish the merits of going down the marinsising route.

Costs so far.

Basic Engine. £250 (Bought with head removed)
Top end gasket set £45
Marinsing kit £1250 (gbox, plate, bhousing, feet, mounts, manifold, Jabsco)
Alternator £40 (none on engine)
Extra flywheel mass £100 (engine produce high torsional vibration at low RPM)
1st Injector cleaning £120 (very loud knocking from engine casued by leaking injectors)
Head rebuild £350 (cambelt broke)
2nd Injector clean £40 (debris one of the injectors)
Injection pump service £325 (break up of CAV injection pump)

In all, that amounts to £2400 and having an engine which I have no faith in. If I need to get the bottom end done, that will set me back a further £1000.

Bottom line, never again. next time, if there ever is one, will be a brand new engine.

John
Click to expand...

You are the second person recently to mention this type of pump failure and no doubt in my mind that the initial start of pump problems caused your injector problems as metal particles migrated through the system

Maybe you would like to give more details regarding your fuel system to see if there was anyway of preventing this.

1.... Did you clean out the fuel tank while changing engines.

2..... What filtration did you have between the fuel tank and the engine fuel pump.


3..... Were you using road diesel or white diesel.?

I am just curious as to whether there is a common denominator when these fuel pumps apparently suffer from seizure after conversion.
 
The engine in question is an Endura, either 1.6 or 1.8. most of the bigger ones are turbo. It is made by Ford and has a Bosch injection pump. The 1.6 was common in Fiestas. The bigger one in P100s, Escorts,Sierras and some others. A lot of Fords use Peugeot engines.
I doubt the pump is at fault, except as a one off. I have used two of the 1.8TDs and had no trouble from the fuel side. Sounds very much like yours was duff from the off.
A
 
Some answers

Bilgediver said:
You are the second person recently to mention this type of pump failure and no doubt in my mind that the initial start of pump problems caused your injector problems as metal particles migrated through the system

Maybe you would like to give more details regarding your fuel system to see if there was anyway of preventing this.

1.... Did you clean out the fuel tank while changing engines.

Answer:- The tank was brand new so I don't belive there is any problem there.

2..... What filtration did you have between the fuel tank and the engine fuel pump.

Answer:- There is a Primary fileter and water trap and a Secondary filter on the engine

3..... Were you using road diesel or white diesel.?

Answer:- I was using road diesel up until the day the injection pump packed in

I am just curious as to whether there is a common denominator when these fuel pumps apparently suffer from seizure after conversion.
Click to expand...

Back in 1980, I marinised a good old BMC 1.5 engine which was 10 years old. I had no problems with silly flywheel weights and cambelts breaking. The engine is still running today with the new owners using the boat regularly.

I doubt if I will ever wish to marinise an engine again as I am in the twilight of my sailing career but if I was asked for any advice I would strongly suggest that one should make every effort to ensure that you have a sound engine. I thought I had but even so I changed the big end bearings "just in case" There is a school of thought however which says “if it aint broke, don’t fix it” As others have said, best to see it running from a cold start.
 
I would go with the above, 'never with a cambelt'.
Ready-made marinised engines are usually designed carefully to be compact, with a certain loss of accessibility. When I replaced an engine in 1998 it cost 7k for a refurb Ford 6 litre, while a brand new imported Otosan road engine was only £2250. I often wonder if you could start from there, but if you have the space it would be possible to use any suitable heat exchanger and oil coolers, and mount them remotely from the engine, it's only pipework after all.
 
Interesting comments from all, purely as matter of info, when selecting lump for present boatie, wanted 40-60 horses, a new merc would have been ideal but they pulled out long ago.
Quotes: Volvo.....£17k
Yanmar 16k
Beta 11k
Lombardini 13k
Volkswagon 14k
Ford 4.5k !!

600 hours in two years, starts on the button, burns 2.4l per hour seasonal average, uses no oil, does not need heater plugs, and runs all day @ 1900 rpm-6.5/7knots. Parts as cheap as chips, when I get to need something and available anywhere!.....Oppo has same engine now coming up for 4000 hours and some discussion ongoing whether it is time to service the injectors..

Technical back-up if required...a phone call away @ Lancing Marine.

There are too many Transits knocking up & down the european road network for Ford to market a **** engine...and I can buy 2 more for the original Volvo price and still have change.
 
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