Is Maltese flag (or re-flagging from red ensign, anyway) the new black?

[MapisM]

Today I heard yet another chap (after the first one, not later than one week ago) who is going to re-register his currently UK flagged boat in Malta, fearing future post-Brexit problems.
Pointless, I would think, but neither of those folks made enough money to buy brand new gin palaces (22 and 26 meters respectively) because they are stupid...
Wadduthink?

 

[jrudge]

You get 8% vat on the maltese scheme .....

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

Ensign is much nicer. Valletta registration will put you back €200 p.a. if under 24 metres overall.

[video]http://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-3686099-stock-footage-flag-of-malta-civil-ensign.html[/video]

 

[MapisM]

You get 8% vat on the maltese scheme .....

That's irrelevant in this context, J.
I'm talking of two boats already VAT paid, whose registration is being moved from UK/SSR to Malta.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Not agree that red ensign is much nicer. I think the Malta registry flag is the most beautiful flag of all flags.
No one beats the eight pointed cross which comes from the Knights of the Pope. It is even used by class Societies for A1 certification in construction.
But anyways to each his own.

That is not cost effective I agree, 200 EUROS each year for renewal plus an extra fee for a Maltese rep (if no Maltese residence) is not cheap.
I think Belgium flag is much easier to make and also less bureaucratic for a normal registry.
If you go to a company system then yes Malta flag has a lot of potential.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

Not agree that red ensign is much nicer.

NO, NO, NO!!!!

What I meant was that the Maltese Civil Ensign is the more beautiful! I wouldn't have my boat wear another one, even if cheaper.

Sorry if that was not clear.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

That's irrelevant in this context, J.
I'm talking of two boats already VAT paid, whose registration is being moved from UK/SSR to Malta.

I too have seen more Maltese registered boats around the Med this year than I can remember seeing before. My guess is that this could be about VAT. If the UK leaves the EU and if no specific arrangements are made to recognise UK flagged VAT paid boats as EU VAT paid then I guess if a UK flagged VAT paid boat leaves the EU for a period, it could be liable for VAT on re-entry into the EU. Or if the EU really wants to play hardball, I suppose that after a Brexit, it could deem all UK registered boats as non EU VAT paid although I think thats unlikely.

Either way I guess the owners might be taking a view that it is less risky to register their boats in an EU country than in a country that will be outside the EU shortly, if they plan to use their boats inside the EU

 

[Tranona]

Don't think reflagging will make any difference post Brexit. The issue is only likely to be about VAT payment, so state of registration is irrelevant.

No doubt there will be lots of anomalies with whatever the final deal is, just as now. For example my old boat had VAT paid in Greece, but is owned by a UK resident and registered in the UK. One would expect that to still be able to move freely even if UK VAT paid boats are not.

However, it is all guesswork at the moment, and probably a long way down the list of priorities for our negotiators.

 

[MapisM]

Either way I guess the owners might be taking a view that it is less risky to register their boats in an EU country than in a country that will be outside the EU shortly, if they plan to use their boats inside the EU

Bingo.
That's exactly the point of those two boat owners (one of which you met, btw), regardless of how solid the rationale behind this thinking actually is.
Sadly, we live in a world where "taking a view" on something often becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy.... :ambivalence:

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Bingo.
That's exactly the point of those two boat owners (one of which you met, btw), regardless of how solid the rationale behind this thinking actually is.

Well for €200/year plus a legal fee, its probably a precaution worth taking if you own a boat worth several millions. I suppose the owners could always re-register in the UK if their fears proved to be unjustified although I'm not sure what they'd gain by doing that

Which of course leads me on to another question. Should we British owners on this forum with boats in the Med consider re-registering our boats in another EU country? Which EU country has the prettiest flag and which nationality do we want to be if we were not British

 

[petem]

Well for €200/year plus a legal fee, its probably a precaution worth taking if you own a boat worth several millions. I suppose the owners could always re-register in the UK if their fears proved to be unjustified although I'm not sure what they'd gain by doing that

Which of course leads me on to another question. Should we British owners on this forum with boats in the Med consider re-registering our boats in another EU country? Which EU country has the prettiest flag and which nationality do we want to be if we were not British

I like the Maltese so that would get my vote. Having spent many happy holidays there, I'd have Xlendi as my home port .

 

[Blue Sunray]

... which nationality do we want to be if we were not British

I believe that Lord Palmerston gave the only acceptable answer to that one.

 

[TonyR123]

I have a UK registered boat, but paid VAT in Spain (as it will be based there). Guess that would ensure no issues if my boat remains in Spain post brexit

 

[petem]

I have a UK registered boat, but paid VAT in Spain (as it will be based there). Guess that would ensure no issues if my boat remains in Spain post brexit

Are you resident in Spain or the UK?

 

[TonyR123]

UK resident, but also have Spanish NIE. Might have to take some tax advice for the next boat!

 

[Tranona]

UK resident, but also have Spanish NIE. Might have to take some tax advice for the next boat!

Not sure what advice you might need. With an existing boat its VAT "status" exists and can't be changed. If you are buying a new boat for use in the EU rather than UK would make sense to pay VAT in the EU state where you are going to use it.

Your country of residence will have no effect on the status of your boat, although of course it might affect your ability to move within the EU (unlikely, despite what the doom mongers are saying).

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Not sure what advice you might need. With an existing boat its VAT "status" exists and can't be changed.
.

I'm sure thats correct but what we don't know is how individual EU countries may treat UK registered VAT paid boats after Brexit. Remember the matriculation tax persecution in Spain and the red diesel farce in Belgium? The fact is that nobody knows how UK registered boats will be treated after Brexit and if you're an EU resident with a UK registered boat, IMHO it is a perfectly sensible precaution to re register the boat in somewhere like Malta particularly if it can be done for peanuts relative to the value of the boat

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Maltese register is good, and the thing about it in the last decades it has been a stable one.
Costs only went up like in the nineties and have been the same like that for ever and laws are not changed to make some one happy but because they are forced from the outside (class society or EU).

I have done ship registration for seven years as a profession in the late nineties till early two thousand.
Xlendi is not a protected bay but is okay for a swim, I do not like for overnight stay so as a home port with medium sized boat or bigger I would be wary of it.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

I like the Maltese so that would get my vote. Having spent many happy holidays there, I'd have Xlendi as my home port .

Xlendi is not a port of registry. If your boat is on the Maltese register, largest in the EU and fifth worldwide, the 'Port of Registry' will be "Valletta". Of course you can keep your boat wherever takes your fancy. Not all bays are considered as being a 'Safe Harbour' by the insurance companies and, should you have a mooring in such a place, they'll probably only cover you until mid-September or 1st October. Marinas are all in 'safe harbours' and I have my boat afloat - and insured - all year round. There may be some restrictions about the use of power boats during the winter months, depending on the weather forecast. I don't know the details because I have a sailing yacht.

 

[Tranona]

I'm sure thats correct but what we don't know is how individual EU countries may treat UK registered VAT paid boats after Brexit. Remember the matriculation tax persecution in Spain and the red diesel farce in Belgium? The fact is that nobody knows how UK registered boats will be treated after Brexit and if you're an EU resident with a UK registered boat, IMHO it is a perfectly sensible precaution to re register the boat in somewhere like Malta particularly if it can be done for peanuts relative to the value of the boat

Registry of the boat is nothing to do with the EU, but is under international agreements, so highly unlikely that any EU stat will use that as a basis of discrimination. Anyway if the EU holds together any restrictions will be EU wide.

Movement of boats in the EU is governed by whether the boat is considered EU VAT paid or not, and movement of people by their citizenship. There is no direct connection between the two from a free movement point of view.

So, cannot see any basis for thinking a change in registration will make any difference.