Is it worth the hassle converting Seatalk 1 to N2K

[James W]

I've inherited a suite of ST60 instruments but am going to fit an N2K backbone to run a new Garmin autopilot, VHF and Plotter.

I had to junk the old Seatalk thru hulls and the ST60 Wind anemometer only shows wind direction and not strength, so I'll have to purchase these, in addition to the Seatalk 1 to Seatalk ng converter. Would it not be better just to forget the whole lot and buy an N2K Wind/depth pack so there's continuity? It will probably cost another £500 or so, but I suppose I could sell the old ST60 displays to meet some of that.

Or is an easy job, save myself a few quid, it will all work ok?

Thanks!

 

[bedouin]

How many st60 displays have you got? I would probably tend to stick with those even if all you are doing is using them as repeaters for the information that is coming from the N2K backbone. New displays seem to cost a fortune so to replace all could be a lot of money.

There is a gadget Raymarine does that will take the analogue transducers and provide N2K/NG outputs - again allowing you to use the ST60 displays as repeaters

 

[Zing]

I have a Raymarine Seatalk to NMEA 183 converter box. Pretty cheap and one of my N2K devices takes it in and puts it out again on the N2K network for free. They come up on Ebay.

look here for official advice on alternative routes:
Replacement for E85001 PC/SeaTalk/NMEA 0183 Interface Module

 

[PaulRainbow]

I have a Raymarine Seatalk to NMEA 183 converter box. Pretty cheap and one of my N2K devices takes it in and puts it out again on the N2K network for free. They come up on Ebay.

look here for official advice on alternative routes:
Replacement for E85001 PC/SeaTalk/NMEA 0183 Interface Module

These are obsolete now and in any event the best the OP can hope for is to use it to convert to 0183, then connect that to the Garmin plotter, which will then have to convert it to N2K, far better ways of doing what the OP wants.

 

[prv]

How many st60 displays have you got? I would probably tend to stick with those even if all you are doing is using them as repeaters for the information that is coming from the N2K backbone. New displays seem to cost a fortune so to replace all could be a lot of money.

If you want to keep nice big separate dedicated displays for the basic values (wind, speed, depth), which would also be my preference, then this makes a lot of sense. The more advanced designs tend to assume more values on fewer displays, and get expensive fast if you want to mimic the older approach.

There is a gadget Raymarine does that will take the analogue transducers and provide N2K/NG outputs - again allowing you to use the ST60 displays as repeaters

If the old transducers worked then he wouldn’t need that device - just plug them into the ST60s and let them do the digitising. He’s almost certainly going to end up with an ST1 / N2k bridge if he keeps the displays, which will get the data onto the N2k bus. But it sounds like the old transducers don’t work anyway.

Pete

 

[PaulRainbow]

I've inherited a suite of ST60 instruments but am going to fit an N2K backbone to run a new Garmin autopilot, VHF and Plotter.

I had to junk the old Seatalk thru hulls and the ST60 Wind anemometer only shows wind direction and not strength, so I'll have to purchase these, in addition to the Seatalk 1 to Seatalk ng converter. Would it not be better just to forget the whole lot and buy an N2K Wind/depth pack so there's continuity? It will probably cost another £500 or so, but I suppose I could sell the old ST60 displays to meet some of that.

Or is an easy job, save myself a few quid, it will all work ok?

Thanks!

You have a few options James. Depends a lot on whether or not you want additional displays or if you are happy with everything on the plotter.

Keeping the ST60 displays:

• Replace the wind and depth transducers
• Fit a Raymarine Seatalk to STNG converter kit Part Number: E2215
• All data available on the N2K network, the auto pilot should steer to a waypoint and steer to wind
• Rough cost, £600

Ditch the ST60s:

• Fit new N2K wind transducer. Major makes are costly, this one is close enough for you too collect: Wind Sensor NMEA2000 | Autonnic
• If you want depth and speed, fit an Airmar DST810
• If you don't need speed fit the Garmin transducer that connects to your plotter. This gives you the option of the fishfinder display, with digital depth over the N2K network.
• You could also opt for the Garmin depth transducer and a separate speed transducer.
• All data available on the N2K network, the auto pilot will steer to a waypoint and steer to wind
• Cost depends on the option you choose for transducers. Wind and DST810 about £550, Wind and Garmin depth about £400 You can get a transom mount speed sensor for £90 (be clever and make a retractable bracket so you keep it out of the water when not sailing, saves cleaning it every five minutes.)

Option two looks a little cheaper, but nothing to shout about ,plus you lose the additional screens, if that's a concern. The plotter does nicely display everything without the screens, but i do still le a couple of additional displays (personally). I'm happy with one dedicated for wind another for depth and speed. Mine are mounted beside the companionway, so they can be seen by everyone. As Pete says, they do come at a cost, normally about £500 each for new GMI20s, although boat show specials come up for abut £350. The earlier model display, GMI10, comes up on Ebay from time to time. It's certainly a more modern system and you can add additional displays later.

 

[James W]

How many st60 displays have you got? I would probably tend to stick with those even if all you are doing is using them as repeaters for the information that is coming from the N2K backbone. New displays seem to cost a fortune so to replace all could be a lot of money.

There is a gadget Raymarine does that will take the analogue transducers and provide N2K/NG outputs - again allowing you to use the ST60 displays as repeaters

I've got 3 ST60 displays, but can I get them to receive N2K data from a new generation speed/depth/temp triducer? Or do I have to buy two older Seatalk 1 transducers and then convert that signal to N2K?

 

[James W]

You have a few options James. Depends a lot on whether or not you want additional displays or if you are happy with everything on the plotter.

Keeping the ST60 displays:

• Replace the wind and depth transducers
• Fit a Raymarine Seatalk to STNG converter kit Part Number: E2215
• All data available on the N2K network, the auto pilot should steer to a waypoint and steer to wind
• Rough cost, £600

Ditch the ST60s:

• Fit new N2K wind transducer. Major makes are costly, this one is close enough for you too collect: Wind Sensor NMEA2000 | Autonnic
• If you want depth and speed, fit an Airmar DST810
• If you don't need speed fit the Garmin transducer that connects to your plotter. This gives you the option of the fishfinder display, with digital depth over the N2K network.
• You could also opt for the Garmin depth transducer and a separate speed transducer.
• All data available on the N2K network, the auto pilot will steer to a waypoint and steer to wind
• Cost depends on the option you choose for transducers. Wind and DST810 about £550, Wind and Garmin depth about £400 You can get a transom mount speed sensor for £90 (be clever and make a retractable bracket so you keep it out of the water when not sailing, saves cleaning it every five minutes.)

Option two looks a little cheaper, but nothing to shout about ,plus you lose the additional screens, if that's a concern. The plotter does nicely display everything without the screens, but i do still le a couple of additional displays (personally). I'm happy with one dedicated for wind another for depth and speed. Mine are mounted beside the companionway, so they can be seen by everyone. As Pete says, they do come at a cost, normally about £500 each for new GMI20s, although boat show specials come up for abut £350. The earlier model display, GMI10, comes up on Ebay from time to time. It's certainly a more modern system and you can add additional displays later.

I think that just about covers it Paul, thanks for that! What do you make of the Autonnic wind sensor?

 

[prv]

I've got 3 ST60 displays, but can I get them to receive N2K data from a new generation speed/depth/temp triducer? Or do I have to buy two older Seatalk 1 transducers and then convert that signal to N2K?

They won’t receive N2k directly, but Raymarine sell a converter which transfers the data both ways.

Pete

 

[PaulRainbow]

How many st60 displays have you got? I would probably tend to stick with those even if all you are doing is using them as repeaters for the information that is coming from the N2K backbone. New displays seem to cost a fortune so to replace all could be a lot of money.

There is a gadget Raymarine does that will take the analogue transducers and provide N2K/NG outputs - again allowing you to use the ST60 displays as repeaters

This is incorrect.

The device you mention is called an ITC5, it takes the older analogue transducer data and converts it to STNG. ST60 display cannot calibrate the sensors with the ITC5, so the ST60s have to be connected directly to the transducers. Splicing the transducers to the ST60 and the ITC5 might work, but all you'll have then is old transducers being converted to STNG, which will then need a STNG to devicenet adapter cable, to get the data onto the N2K network.

 

[laika]

Would it not be better just to forget the whole lot and buy an N2K Wind/depth pack so there's continuity?
[...]
Or is an easy job, save myself a few quid, it will all work ok?

I'll echo the first para of bedouin's response. I find st50s and st60s more attractive than the cheapest n2k displays and the good ones are in the £500 ballpark, so heinously expensive to replace 3 which is why I kept my ST50s when installing n2k and put in the converter. I did have the bonus of still having working transducers though.

If your wind transducer is working for direction, are the bearings just seized for the wind speed part? Could be fixable?
I believe the ST60 instrument displays were capable of working as repeaters so should be able to work without a transducer attached. The n2k to st1 converter should be bi-directional so presumably if you were to fit one of those airmar tridata through hulls which plugs directly in to the n2k network you should be able to display the data, but probably worth running it by ramarine (unless PaulRainbow or someone has played with this exact config and can confirm it works).

Yes fitting the the n2k to st1 converter is easy though presumably made a little more complex if you have a devicenet backbone.

 

[James W]

I'll echo the first para of bedouin's response. I find st50s and st60s more attractive than the cheapest n2k displays and the good ones are in the £500 ballpark, so heinously expensive to replace 3 which is why I kept my ST50s when installing n2k and put in the converter. I did have the bonus of still having working transducers though.

If your wind transducer is working for direction, are the bearings just seized for the wind speed part? Could be fixable?
I believe the ST60 instrument displays were capable of working as repeaters so should be able to work without a transducer attached. The n2k to st1 converter should be bi-directional so presumably if you were to fit one of those airmar tridata through hulls which plugs directly in to the n2k network you should be able to display the data, but probably worth running it by ramarine (unless PaulRainbow or someone has played with this exact config and can confirm it works).

Yes fitting the the n2k to st1 converter is easy though presumably made a little more complex if you have a devicenet backbone.

It's looking like keeping the ST60's is probably the way forward.

The only other alternative is the Garmin GNX wired wind pack, as that comes with two displays and would fit seamlessly into my Garmin setup. Garmin GNX Wired Sail Pack 52 - 010-01248-50 The downside? At least another £600......?‍

 

[bedouin]

I've got 3 ST60 displays, but can I get them to receive N2K data from a new generation speed/depth/temp triducer? Or do I have to buy two older Seatalk 1 transducers and then convert that signal to N2K?

Yes - with the correct converter you should be able to get all the sentences that ST supports to the heads. If you want to go that way it is worth double checking that.

FWIW I have combined an old ST network with the ST60 & autohelm with NG for the plotter and NME0183 for AIS from the VHF and it is all working nicely. I think wiring ST is easier and cheaper than NG - just any old 3 wire connected any-old-how.

 

[PaulRainbow]

They won’t receive N2k directly, but Raymarine sell a converter which transfers the data both ways.

Pete

I presume you mean the Seatalk to STNG converter kit Part Number: E2215 i mentioned earlier ?

I've fitted a few of these for getting Seatalk data onto STNG or N2K networks, but i've never used one to send STNG/N2K data to an ST60 display. Are you sure that if, for example, James fitted a N2K wind transducer, connected to the STNG converter, that the ST60 wind display would show that data ?

It would be good it it does, as James can upgrade to modern transducers, with a N2K network and retain the ST60s

 

[James W]

I presume you mean the Seatalk to STNG converter kit Part Number: E2215 i mentioned earlier ?

I've fitted a few of these for getting Seatalk data onto STNG or N2K networks, but i've never used one to send STNG/N2K data to an ST60 display. Are you sure that if, for example, James fitted a N2K wind transducer, connected to the STNG converter, that the ST60 wind display would show that data ?

It would be good it it does, as James can upgrade to modern transducers, with a N2K network and retain the ST60s

This was my understanding, the E2215 would convert data ST1 into N2K, but I wasn't sure if it would work the other way round.....

 

[prv]

I believe the ST60 instrument displays were capable of working as repeaters so should be able to work without a transducer attached. The n2k to st1 converter should be bi-directional so presumably if you were to fit one of those airmar tridata through hulls which plugs directly in to the n2k network you should be able to display the data, but probably worth running it by ramarine (unless PaulRainbow or someone has played with this exact config and can confirm it works).

I haven’t personally used this combination, but it’s the most basic use of the Raymarine ST1 converter and I would be entirely confident in it working.

Pete

 

[laika]

I've fitted a few of these for getting Seatalk data onto STNG or N2K networks, but i've never used one to send STNG/N2K data to an ST60 display. Are you sure that if, for example, James fitted a N2K wind transducer, connected to the STNG converter, that the ST60 wind display would show that data ?

Per my previous comment, theoretically yes. The st60 instruments should be usable as repeaters (without a transducer directly attached) and wind, depth and speed are all listed under both send and receive (see towards the end in the manual):
Box
...but asking raymarine wouldn't do any harm.

 

[PaulRainbow]

This was my understanding, the E2215 would convert data ST1 into N2K, but I wasn't sure if it would work the other way round.....

This was my understanding, the E2215 would convert data ST1 into N2K, but I wasn't sure if it would work the other way round.....

Definitely works very well converting from ST1 to NG/N2K, i hadn't considered it converting back the other way when i typed post #6. It does make some sense that it would work, but a call to Raymarine would confirm. If it does, then option 2 in post #6, whist retaining the ST60s would be a good choice, IMO.

 

[prv]

Are you sure that if, for example, James fitted a N2K wind transducer, connected to the STNG converter, that the ST60 wind display would show that data ?

I don’t have first hand experience, but it’s one of the examples Raymarine give:


All the transducer data in that network has arrived over N2k, but some of it is being displayed on ST1 instruments.

Pete

 

[PaulRainbow]

I don’t have first hand experience, but it’s one of the examples Raymarine give:
View attachment 102973

All the transducer data in that network has arrived over N2k, but some of it is being displayed on ST1 instruments.

Pete

Thanks Pete, that's pretty conclusive. Handy for James as he can update the transducers and keep the ST60 displays.