Is it just me or are all modern boats completely horrible ?

[Laminar Flow]

I crewed on a delivery of an 80' Maxi from here (Barbados) to England in 2012, with a 2 day stop in Horta on the way.
We had a wonderful trip up to the Azores, flying kites most of the way. Although we did receive a terse text from our excellent weatherman (Lenseman of this parish) when we were a week out telling us to 'stop - hurricane ahead'. If he hadn't told us about it, we would have sailed straight in to it probably. I think it was the first hurricane of the season, in May.
And we got fairly well pasted by a storm halfway between Horta and Plymouth - although to be fair we knew about it before we set off, but skipper reckoned we could cope with it ok...... he decided that we would run before it under double reefed main - think he wanted to see what sailing an 80' Laser would be like.
So we did, and we were surfing down big seas - our maximum surf speed was 37 knots (I saw it simultaneously on log and GPS - I was at the chart table). This was in about a Force 7, maybe gusting 8. Later on the inevitable happened, and we gybed accidentally after stuffing the bow into a wave and stopping quickly - the main boom broke, and most of it ended up in the sea. We were still sailing at 10 knots downwind despite this huge sea anchor. And because we were going so slowly (relatively), a big wave dumped on us and took away one of our liferafts. It was literally like being underneath a waterfall.
We managed to get the boom back on board, got the main down, hoisted a small staysail and took off under perfect control for Plymouth. That night the winds got up to F 10 gusting 11, the seas were a good 9 m. / 30' (but very long wavelength) - and the boat behaved beautifully. We were still surfing at high speed (my best surf that night was 29 knots).
Along the way we passed (or rather we screamed past) a smaller yacht that was hove to.
And we carried this staysail and the wind the whole way to Plymouth.

Thank you, Banjansailor. This is precisely what I was talking about, bonus for you: you didn't have to pay for the damage.

 

[Daydream believer]

It's the mainsheet; the mainsheet winches are on the coachroof. There's no reef line on the port side.

I suspect that you are right there, as one cannot see any sign of a mainsheet exiting the boom & going down to the side deck & back to the winch by the helm. Which is what one might expect.
Not the sort of boat one can sail 2 up then. If one of them goes below to make a cuppa, or have a kip, the mainsheet is out of reach of the helm, as is the jib winch. From what you are saying the 2 winches by the helm are redundant because the jib sheet is going to the winch hidden under the arch in the picture. So any sail adjustment to alter course or ease in a gust needs another crew member.

 

[pvb]

I suspect that you are right there, as one cannot see any sign of a mainsheet exiting the boom & going down to the side deck & back to the winch by the helm. Which is what one might expect.
Not the sort of boat one can sail 2 up then. If one of them goes below to make a cuppa, or have a kip, the mainsheet is out of reach of the helm, as is the jib winch. From what you are saying the 2 winches by the helm are redundant because the jib sheet is going to the winch hidden under the arch in the picture. So any sail adjustment to alter course or ease in a gust needs another crew member.

A number of owners choose to bring the mainsheets (it's double-ended) back to the aft-most winches.

 

[geem]

I suspect that you are right there, as one cannot see any sign of a mainsheet exiting the boom & going down to the side deck & back to the winch by the helm. Which is what one might expect.
Not the sort of boat one can sail 2 up then. If one of them goes below to make a cuppa, or have a kip, the mainsheet is out of reach of the helm, as is the jib winch. From what you are saying the 2 winches by the helm are redundant because the jib sheet is going to the winch hidden under the arch in the picture. So any sail adjustment to alter course or ease in a gust needs another crew member.

Another compromise of modern boats that prioritise accomodation over the practicalities of actually sailing?

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I suspect that you are right there, as one cannot see any sign of a mainsheet exiting the boom & going down to the side deck & back to the winch by the helm. Which is what one might expect.
Not the sort of boat one can sail 2 up then. If one of them goes below to make a cuppa, or have a kip, the mainsheet is out of reach of the helm, as is the jib winch. From what you are saying the 2 winches by the helm are redundant because the jib sheet is going to the winch hidden under the arch in the picture. So any sail adjustment to alter course or ease in a gust needs another crew member.

All my winches are out of reach of the helm, I reef enough so I don't need to ease the sheets in a gust - something I used to do when dinghy sailing, but with the genoa loads of a 12m yacht on a self-tailing winch, easing the sheets and hauling them in again is not something I want to be doing regularly as a cruising sailor sitting at the helm with a cuppa.

My autopilot takes care of the helm when course changes or reefing/sail adjustment is needed ..... it all works for me and I can single-hand quite effectively. 2-up is absolutely no problem. I really don't see the issue.

 

[pagoda]

A number of owners choose to bring the mainsheets (it's double-ended) back to the aft-most winches.

Our boat was delivered to Kiel to it's first owner with the mainsheet coming to the coachroof winches. Not too handy. the Genoa sheets came aft to winches within reach of each helm.
First owner changed it all round.
German mainsheet system fitted with each helm position having easy access to a mainsheet winch. He fitted Harken 53s as genoa sheet winches well aft in the sidewalls of the cockpit. Most dumping of a mainsheet can be easily done at the helm if need be .
When I want to trim the genoa and am alone in the cockpit, the autohelm does duty for a few minutes. As mentioned , two up is even easier.

 

[geem]

Our boat was delivered to Kiel to it's first owner with the mainsheet coming to the coachroof winches. Not too handy. the Genoa sheets came aft to winches within reach of each helm.
First owner changed it all round.
German mainsheet system fitted with each helm position having easy access to a mainsheet winch. He fitted Harken 53s as genoa sheet winches well aft in the sidewalls of the cockpit. Most dumping of a mainsheet can be easily done at the helm if need be .
When I want to trim the genoa and am alone in the cockpit, the autohelm does duty for a few minutes. As mentioned , two up is even easier.

But why did the manufacturer produce something so unusable in the first place? Do the designers never go sailing! The previous job the designer had was maybe working for IKEA?

 

[Skylark]

deleted.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

But why did the manufacturer produce something so unusable in the first place? Do the designers never go sailing! The previous job the designer had was maybe working for IKEA?

What was described is the standard setup for pretty much every AWB built in the last 2 decades, mainsheet on a jammer and winch on the coachroof, genoa on self-tailing winches on the cockpit coamings... there are literally thousands of yachts like this. It works fine.

 

[Daydream believer]

What was described is the standard setup for pretty much every AWB built in the last 2 decades, mainsheet on a jammer and winch on the coachroof, genoa on self-tailing winches on the cockpit coamings... there are literally thousands of yachts like this. It works fine.

A few models of Hanse have done it differently for some time now. & there are quite a few other designs with - for instance-cockpit traveller in the floor &
& winches for the mainsheet by the helm. So I would suggest that perhaps your comment is a little wide of the mark. Right for some but I doubt that it could be called a "standard"

 

[flaming]

What was described is the standard setup for pretty much every AWB built in the last 2 decades, mainsheet on a jammer and winch on the coachroof, genoa on self-tailing winches on the cockpit coamings... there are literally thousands of yachts like this. It works fine.

It's certainly a very common setup.

I hate it personally. I don't think it's unsafe, or that there is a big issue not being able to dump mainsheet from the helm in a cruising boat.
But I'm a tweaker. I like to actually sail the boat, and if everytime I wanted to adjust the main I had to clamber forward it's going to annoy me and the people trying to relax in the cockpit.
My Dad's Dufour 40 was basically my perfect cruising boat from this respect. Main, traveler and Genoa winches all accessible from behind the wheel. You could even work the genoa car pullers from behind the helm too. Many hours of blissful tweaking without disturbing the passengers. Ideal.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

It's certainly a very common setup.

I hate it personally. I don't think it's unsafe, or that there is a big issue not being able to dump mainsheet from the helm in a cruising boat.
But I'm a tweaker. I like to actually sail the boat, and if everytime I wanted to adjust the main I had to clamber forward it's going to annoy me and the people trying to relax in the cockpit.
My Dad's Dufour 40 was basically my perfect cruising boat from this respect. Main, traveler and Genoa winches all accessible from behind the wheel. You could even work the genoa car pullers from behind the helm too. Many hours of blissful tweaking without disturbing the passengers. Ideal.

Fair enough, I can certainly see your point, I do disturb my passengers when I'm sailing with non-sailors, but my crew normally like to get involved too, so the setup I've got means they don't disturb me on the helm.

Each to their own I guess.