Is it easy to make your boat a'commercial' boat?

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cliffdale

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Is it easy to make your boat a\'commercial\' boat?

What do I need to do to make my boat a commercial boat?
Our local fuel barge is only selling to commercial rated vessels.
I used to fill up at 25p/l less than marina rates.
Any ideas to help?
 
Re: Is it easy to make your boat a\'commercial\' boat?

Have to buy a lot of fuel to get back the costs of fully MCA coding the vessel.
Marine Coastguard Agency safety coding on a boat your size probably about 3-4 grand
 
Re: Is it easy to make your boat a\'commercial\' boat?

Does it need to be mca coded to be commercial?
I just want a bit of paperwork to pass to the fuel barge saying'commercial vessel'
 
Re: Is it easy to make your boat a\'commercial\' boat?

The only way your boat could be classed as commercial is if you chartered it as a business, which would first mean that you had to have it coded. You would still have to pay full tax on the fuel you use when you used it for private purposes as well as income tax for benefit in kind.

You can already claim a portion at the lower rate for the fuel that you notionally use for non propulsion, ie heating generating electricity etc. So pay up like everybody else.
 
Re: Is it easy to make your boat a\'commercial\' boat?

I've done it several times, on the UK pt 1 register including my current boat. You just get the boat coded, then ask Cardiff for a commercial part 1 certif. Easy peasy

The cost of part 1 varies, depending on how much mods are needed to your boat and how much diy you can do. Perosnally, I think most of the coding gear is good safety gear and I would have done it anyway, so I see the incremental cost as about £2000 initially then £500 pa, on my boat. Well worth it if there are other adavnatages to being commercial...
 
Re: Is it easy to make your boat a\'commercial\' boat?

[ QUOTE ]
The only way your boat could be classed as commercial is if you chartered it as a business

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends what one means by the term "commercial". If you are trying to get the papers that a fuel vendor wants to see to tick a box and treat you as commercial, that might mean merely that you want your part 1 certif to say "Type of ship - Commercial Vessel" (instead of "Pleasure Vessel") and for the boat to be listed on the commercial subset of the part 1 register. To achieve just that, you do not need to charter it. You merely need to code it. (I have done this myself several times so I am the horse's keyboard on this!)
 
Re: Is it easy to make your boat a\'commercial\' boat?

If you are not taking people out on the boat does it still need to be coded?
Register as a marine photographer
www.boat-pictures.co.uk is available at £5.98 for 2 years and away you go.

Chill
 
Re: Is it easy to make your boat a\'commercial\' boat?

Yes, its just the paper work I require for a tick box. I think Suncoast is right saying it would not be worth the cost of coding to save fuel costs.
I just feel ripped off when I fill up at the marina compared with fuel barge price in Falmouth
 
Re: Is it easy to make your boat a\'commercial\' boat?

[ QUOTE ]
If you are not taking people out on the boat does it still need to be coded?

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont think that's the point. He doesn't intend/care about taking people out. This is all about getting a certificate with the magic word "commercial" on it, nothing else. I think...
 
Re: Is it easy to make your boat a\'commercial\' boat?

Hi there,

Thinking out load.

As part One registered ie 64/64ths

the queen owns the "rights".

if this is the case?

is my boat a part of the Queens navy?

ie red diesel exempt?

UMMM, well worth a try /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

kind regards,
Les.
 
Re: Is it easy to make your boat a\'commercial\' boat?

Confused ere. You're saying the queen owns my (part 1) boat? That's news to me.
 
Re: Is it easy to make your boat a\'commercial\' boat?

You are not being ripped off at all. Red diesel is not permitted for pleasure boats. The law was changed last year. If you use red diesel, not only are you breaking the law, but you are defrauding the public.

The RYA and the Govt negotiated a compromise position (the law is EU, not just UK) to reduce the impact by allowing a portion of you fuel to be designated for purposes other than propulsion, so you effectively pay less duty than for road use.
 
Re: Is it easy to make your boat a\'commercial\' boat?

The fuel barge does not sell red diesel, it is a bright yellowish colour.
So you are saying the commercial vessels, charter boats etc are breaking the law when they fill up?
 
Re: Is it easy to make your boat a\'commercial\' boat?

"Red" diesel has a lower rate of duty and is used by such businesses as farmers and fisherman. Pleasure boats used to be allowed to use it but the law changed last year after a long fight - surprised you were not aware. It is now not legal to use it.

I suggest you go on the RYA site, or search this forum as there have been plenty of threads on the subject to find out how you make your usage declaration when you fill up.

It could, of course be that marinas charge a higher basic price than other sources, but that is not because of duty, but simple maximisation of their profits.
 
Re: Is it easy to make your boat a\'commercial\' boat?

I know all about the 60/40 split. The bottom line is, with tax, I would save about 25p/l fuel barge price. Marina rates are, 'we've got you by the short and curlies,' The extra rate at the marina(s) is due to high mark up.
I dont want to break the law or avoid tax, Im just after filling up at a reasonable price.
 
Re: Is it easy to make your boat a\'commercial\' boat?

Yes, indeed. I wasn't going to go there but you are quite right. In most countries, to get commercial diesel, you have to be both commercially registered AND be using the boat commercially.

In France for example, they generally insist on seeing a charter contract in the recent past or future, and a crew list

As regards this thread, I was restricting my answers to OP's question which I think was "how to I get the commercial bit of paper?" as opposed to "how do I legally get detax fuel?" (!) But yes you are right.
 
Re: Is it easy to make your boat a\'commercial\' boat?

Nothing to stop you buying at the commercial rate if that is what the fuel barge sells it at! It's not the fuel barge's responsibility to declare who pays what which is why they have chosen to sell at the "commercial rate". You would have to justify your buying it at that price or pay the duty yourself!

Marinas ask you to fill in a declaration for the 60/40 spit and on that basis you are covered. It's up to you how you want to play it. Coding your boat in itself will have no effect unless you ease it for either charter or in our case training as well.

We declare and buy fuel at full commercial rate and also claim back the vat (5%) and once a year put in a claim at around 10p/litre for duty claim back. But it has to be used for active commercial work.



But again rules apply. For example, if a boat is "bare boat" charter fuel reclaim is not allowed, but is in the case of "Skippered" charter.

The same would apply in terms of VAT reclaim on a vessel. You would need to supply invoices to prove charter or other such commercial usage.

As you don't intend to do any of the above by your own admission,you are talking tax evasion, not tax avoidance - the choice is yours.

Oh, and the cost of coding, depending on size of vessel and numbers of passengers is "several £000,s"
 
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