Is it big enough!

[derekbland]

Re: Is It Big Enough!

That is how I envisage it, so thank you. It has helped to reinforce my perception of how it would be.

 

[markc]

Re: Is It Big Enough!

Bottom line is, we have to try it and will only regret it if we don't.

Very true

 

[[165042]]

Re: Is It Big Enough!

You are clearly new to boating - I suspect most of us at some point have regretted buying one!!

 

[derekbland]

Re: Is It Big Enough!

I have had two smaller boats in the past and never regretted either of them and loved it. The second one was berthed in Poole, Dorset. I am now retired (early) and able to afford the adventure. If after a year I don't like it then I'll have tried and learnt from it. If I lived my life assuming I would regret it and taking other peoples negative opinions then I would never have gone into what I do now. In fact, it was taking the calculated risks that have enabled me to be relatively successful and to be able to afford to go on this adventure.

I am grateful for any posts with positive advice or words of caution.

 

[[165042]]

Re: Is It Big Enough!

I don't think anyone goes in thinking it would be a disaster but often that is the case. Committing to say a £250k purchase with annual running costs of probably £20k with the potential to lose £25k on the sale of it in a year needs some careful consideration! Costs rise exponentially with the length of the boat. Once you go above 50' you need to be prepared for some serious bills. If you're happy with that then by all means go for it but there's far more to consider than just space when deciding between a 40' & 50' boat.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

We are looking to buy a motor boat. It is almost certainly going to be a flybridge. The plan is that year one (this year), it will be based in the UK and then 2019 hope to start several years adventure starting with west France and Northern Spain and then on to the Med.

IMHO youre asking the wrong question first. A cruise from the UK to the Med is not to be undertaken lightly, especially crossing Biscay. You will want to do much of it at displacement speed rather than planing speed both to keep fuel costs down and to increase range for some of the longer passages. And obviously you have to think about the possibility you are going to be caught in bad sea conditions as well. So the first question should be what boats are suitable for that cruise and then the second question whether you can live on them. Both the Princess 45 and Fairline 46 would be capable of doing that sort of cruise but that kind of planing boat would be very uncomfortable at displacement speeds in marginal sea conditions. You also have to ask how troublesome boats of that age would be on such a long cruise and how capable you are of fixing them. In all honesty if I was thinking about buying either of those boats in the UK for eventual use in the Med, I would be thinking about trucking them to the Med rather than sailing them. It would probably be cheaper as well once you tot up fuel, berthing and maintenance costs

If you are set on cruising a motorboat to the Med, IMHO you should also consider semi displacement and displacement boats too which are generally more comfortable at slower speeds and, arguably, more seaworthy. Marques that you might also consider could be Trader, Aquastar, Hardy and Nordhavn

 

[jrudge]

Re: Is It Big Enough!

Nice attitude.

Based on "but exploring the countries of the Med" I would just start there to be honest.

Mallorca ( I am there ) is lovely a 58 foot boat in a visitors berth is somewhere between E100 and E250 ( you can spend more) per night with E150 / E170 being relatively typical . Anchoring is of course free. A 50 foot I would imagine be maybe E100/E120 but others will be along who have that size boat.

The mainland will be a lot less.

Fuel is about E1.20 per litre in Mallorca, when traveling about it was a bit cheaper in france ( you could get a tanker to deliver) and daft money - E1.80 in Italy!

Servicing and a few general repairs I would guess would be E5000 and a lift and antifoul maybe E4k - lifts in the Islands are very expensive - E1k each way for me.

Getting anything done in Mallorca is expensive - if you think twice the UK cost you are not far out. Things like upholstery I get done in the Uk and ship it.

 

[derekbland]

Re: Is It Big Enough!

Appreciated and thanks for the info.

I have heard about the costs of berthing in the Balearics and so whilst playing with Open Sea Map, just to get a rough idea of destinations and distances, I look at do a few nights in the islands rather than many weeks. I didn't realise that fuel could costa as much as you mentioned and have based my costings at £1.10pl but again, I have contingency across the board. I have allowed around £10k pa for all costs excluding berthing and fuel and so hopefully this is pretty in line with what you posted.

Is it fairly easy to anchor? I don't mean technically, I seem to remember reading somewhere about patrols coming into bays and moving boats on. I'm not sure where this was but either Spain or Greece seems to ring a bell.

 

[Portofino]

Re: Is It Big Enough!

25 K + is was I had in mind .
Broken down like this
5K for annual maintenance-
Split 20 between berth / fuel the ratio depends how far how fast .
When not burning fuel , you burn berthing fees could be 12/8 or 8/12 does not matter really as final figure is the same .

Then insurance , flights to and from where it’s parked .
40 K means you can really enjoy it , not worry about long fast stints or airport convenience marinas and have enough to bnb it hire cars etc .
Can you give a breakdown of where your 10 K comes from .
If it’s gonna cost ave €80/100 per night and burn ( planning boat 14/15 M ) 160 L / hour and do say 25 miles / hour
For a typical annual cost of running it ?

10 K is possible in a Yacht .

 

[derekbland]

Re: Is It Big Enough!

I haven't put my complete spreadsheet on here and so living expenses for the UK, kids, travel is separate. Ok So;

10k for berthing in the UK, more than we've been quoted for the size we are looking at. We realise more in the Med and so have up to 14kpa in year 2 and 15k year 3.

The £10k I mentioned in earlier post was for engine servicing including a lift in/out, only not berthing fuel. It said "excluding berthing".

Fuel at £15k PA but flexible on this either way and if we run out we stop. We intend to find a cheaper 6 months berth over the winter and have seen plenty of Marinas at far less than 80 Euros per night. We will still do a bit of winter sailing but this is likely to be around where we are based. None of this is hard and fast and are flexible on where we end up cruising.

We also have allowances for food, eat-in/out, travel, entertainment, car hire, car maintenance UK, mobile phones, kids money, and other expenses.

If it gets too expensive we will sell, take the loss and go back home.

On top of all of this I have allowed an additional £10k PA for contingency. We are lucky enough to be able to release more capital form assets if we need to. Even with these provisions we have spare each month. I wouldn't embark on this if we didn't.

 

[jrudge]

Re: Is It Big Enough!

Sounds realistic.

You dont get moved on in Mallorca so anchoring is simple. Just stay out of the swim lanes ( which are roped off anyway). There will be the odd no anchoring zone but I cant recall one off the top of my head and I have been there for years.

In mallorca ( sorry its all I know!) you get winter berths from October to May just about anywhere. I pay E1500 per month on a 58 so a 50 ish will be E1100?

 

[derekbland]

Re: Is It Big Enough!

Cheers.

Wow, that's cheaper than I expected. I enquired with Port Olona, Les Sables d'olonne, Vendee, one of our fav places to go and for 6 months from October to March it is a 4417k Euros. This was in case we wanted to start the journey towards the Med towards the end of this season. I am under no illusion that South of France may be more expensive but I believe mainland Spain is cheaper than south of France unless you go to Malaga or similar. Apart from the occasional treat we are not looking at staying at 5* marinas.

Thanks again, all useful info.

 

[markc]

Re: Is It Big Enough!

I think your costs sound realistic. Annual berthing costs do vary greatly in the med - from about £4k in some Spanish Marinas (Sant Carles) to £25k in the Baldricks. SoF probably around £10-£14k depending on marina. Bear in mind that in many marinas in SoF you will only really get a secure mooring for over a month if you buy one, which means buying a lease with X number of years remaining. This can have quite an impact on your initial capital. Ensure you pick a marina that is comfortable enough for you to get there by air all year round.

Regarding the trip from the UK to the Med, I'm sure it would be an adventure! If you are not working and have all the time in the world to get there it's perfectly do-able. If on the other hand you try and do it during a 2-3 week summer holiday, I would put it on a truck or ship.

 

[derekbland]

Re: Is It Big Enough!

Correction. the figure Port Olona, Les Sables d'olonne includes August and September.

Here is the translation; "Following your request, please find attached the rates of the port. For information, the parking fee for a boat of 14 meters overall, from 1 August 2018 to 1 April 2019 would be: 1264,80 € (August) + 838 € (September) + 385,70 € x 6 months (October to March) = 4417 € TTC.
If you arrive in August, it is better to warn us a few days.
Cordially".

 

[jrudge]

Re: Is It Big Enough!

Cheers.

Wow, that's cheaper than I expected. I enquired with Port Olona, Les Sables d'olonne, Vendee, one of our fav places to go and for 6 months from October to March it is a 4417k Euros. This was in case we wanted to start the journey towards the Med towards the end of this season. I am under no illusion that South of France may be more expensive but I believe mainland Spain is cheaper than south of France unless you go to Malaga or similar. Apart from the occasional treat we are not looking at staying at 5* marinas.

Thanks again, all useful info.

I don't know Malaga as a marina, but the vast majority of mainland marinas will be a lot cheaper than the islands. Porto Banus might be and exception but even then I would be surprised.

 

[derekbland]

Re: Is It Big Enough!

Cheers. No I don't work and as from July nor will the boss. We do have commitments year 1, early summer 2018-2019 and so would be a week or two here and there until early summer 2019. There is no rush as far as we are concerned.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: Is It Big Enough!

I haven't put my complete spreadsheet on here and so living expenses for the UK, kids, travel is separate. Ok So;.

Sounds about right. The only thing I would say is that £10k pa maintenance sounds a bit light but its going to depend on, as I said, how handy you are with the spanners and paint brush yourself and where you get the maintenance carried out because rates can vary hugely across the Med. I would be inclined to raise that figure to £15k myself. The £10k contingency is fine so long as its averaged over a number of years. A major engine rebuild, for example, could easily blow a hole in £50k and thats just one side. On that subject you must ensure you get a thorough hull, equipment and engine survey done on whatever boat you intend to buy so that at least you can start off with a high degree of confidence in the boat and its systems

 

[MapisM]

I'm with Deleted User ref. the budget.
Another couple of thoughts which I would throw in are the following:

1) ref. the location choice, bear in mind that in the Med the marina costs are essentially driven by the good old law of offer and demand.
Which stands to reason of course, but the flip side is that this is very loosely (or not at all!) related with how nice the surrounding cruising grounds are.
In other words, if you don't need frequent and convenient connections allowing you to go back and forth also just for a weekend, and you are not interested in night life and/or all the amenities of the most popular places, well, the Med is your oyster, so to speak.

2) I'm also in the camp of skipping the delivery from the UK altogether.
Not that I don't like cruising, mind: next summer I have a 1200Nm delivery trip scheduled, to reach Sardinia from Venice, but along that route there are literally thousands of islands, and some utterly beautiful spots.
We are thinking to make it in a couple of months or so, choosing the next anchorage wherever we feel like after waking up (very late!) in the morning - and in spite of that, we will barely scratch the surface.
I don't want to dismiss the UK-Gib cruise, it surely has its attractions, but if given a choice, I know along which route I'd rather go cruising...

Anyway, all the very best whatever your choice, and welcome to the madhouse! :encouragement:

 

[derekbland]

Thank you for your thoughts. When playing with Open Sea Map I look at all of the Islands and spots that I would like to see and there are just too many and so we will have to decide what is included and excluded and so I get your point re choice. This trip is intended to be over 3 - 5 years and from 2019 we intend to be on board around 5 months of the year.

Thanks for the best wishes, I am champing at the bit. With luck we will be ready to buy from around mid April.

 

[Bouba]

Thank you for your thoughts. When playing with Open Sea Map I look at all of the Islands and spots that I would like to see and there are just too many and so we will have to decide what is included and excluded and so I get your point re choice. This trip is intended to be over 3 - 5 years and from 2019 we intend to be on board around 5 months of the year.

Thanks for the best wishes, I am champing at the bit. With luck we will be ready to buy from around mid April.

I have friends who did the same trip as you in the same size boat, and they had a dog so the longest passage was between dog needs. It should be a great adventure