is Gibraltar a good place for a live aboard?

sunsailor

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Hi, this is my first post on this site so hello to you all!

I currently sail on lake coniston in the UK but am considering buying a 30 foot boat and keeping it in Gibraltar to live on between November and April each year. The boat would be permenantly based there. I would be most grateful if anyone could answer some or all of the following questions.

1.are there many vacant berths at the moment and at what cost?

2. Are there any local taxes to pay when living aboard?

3. What flag should I register the boat under? I am a British national and wish to remain a UK resident by spending most of the year in the UK. I think registering in the UK under the SSR (small ships register) would be the best and cheapest option. Is this OK if the boat is permenantly based in Gibraltar? Or are there advantages having it registered in Gibraltar?

4. A lot of the yachts I see for sale are across the border in la linea marina. I have read that you should not buy a boat in Gibraltar if you wish to preserve the vat paid status. Is this correct? IE you would move the boat to la linea just for the sale? Are there any problems in then moving it back to Gibraltar?

5. I would like to bring a UK registered car with me. So long as I keep it in Gibraltar or Spain for less that six months each year I have been told this is OK. Is there parking in the marinas or would it be a lot cheaper to park the car in la linea?

6. I want to get away from the British winters but I also don't like it too hot. 15 degC and some sunshine would be ideal. Do you think Gibraltar would meet my needs? Are sailing conditions OK in winter? I also think Gibraltar would be a less beurocratic place to be than say Spain and not having a language barrier to worry about.
Many thanks
Simon
 

Trident

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Gib is pretty stormy and uncomfortable a lot of the time in winter. La Linea would be better protected and cheaper and is just a few minutes walk from Gib if you want Britishness but everything (except booze and fags) is cheaper in Spain despite the so called tax free status of Gib . Registering under the SSR in the UK is the easiest and cheapest no matter where you keep the boat and ensures you have no foreign regs to meet so keeps it simple. If a boat is VAT paid in the EU its VAT paid , unless it leaves for several years , so if a VAT paid boat is for sale in Gib it won't lose its aid paid status just because you do the deal in Gib. if its not valid paid moving it anywhere else won't make it VAT paid - only paying the VAT on import would do that.

I think the rules on cars are 90 days but may be wrong - but if you do go to La Linea you'll get free parking in the marina and no one is likely to hassle you if you keep it in the country longer than you should so long as its taxed and MOT'd in the UK
 

GrahamM376

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Any paperwork for transfer of a UK owned boat needs to be done within the EC to avoid VAT. We visit Gib most summers but I wouldn't want to winter there, much prefer the Algarve weather and cheaper flights.
 

sunsailor

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Thanks for the replies.
From what I have read if a boat is sold outside the EU or in Gibraltar which is not part of the EU vat region it has become exported from the EU. So if it were to return to the EU it would become an import and vat would need to be paid again.
Being a UK resident, flying a UK flag and registering under the ssr would seem the best option then.
is the weather really that bad in winter in Gibraltar? I'm looking for say 3 sunny days in an average week and temperatures not dipping much below 15 degC. Sort of like springtime weather in the UK. Is the the weather quite a lot better if you move to a southern Spanish or Portuguese marina?
Thanks simon
 

Tranona

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You are correct. If a vessel changes hands outside the EU then it is potentially (almost certainly! liable to VAT if it re-enters the EU. As others have said, mainland Spain (or Portugal) is a better place to keep a boat than Gibraltar. More choice, generally cheaper living and easier access. As a no resident you can keep your boat, registered on the SSR and use it without restrictions. However, you should be aware that if you do become potentially resident, which basically means you are there more than 183 days a year, your boat and any other assets such as a car become potentially liable to a tax. There are ways of avoiding this, but you perhaps need to take expert advice locally if you do plan to become resident so that you comply with the rules.
 

chasroberts

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I spent a winter in Gib and can confrm what the others above have said. However, there are a couple of advantages to being in Gib itself. These mostly depend on what you are looking for during the winter. When I was there there was a big 'British' community, a good and lively social life, Morrisons Supermarket, Haggis available for Burns Night etc. etc. Cheap Spanish shopping was across the border (one of those 'old lady' shopping trollies is very handy. Across the border La Linea has cleaned up it's act considerably and there was a very good Spanish nightlife with tapas bars etc. The storms could be interesting with a big swell in Marina Bay marina which I think they have improved with an additional outside wall. It's a bit 'you pays yer money and takes yer choice'. I would certainly go back there.

Good luck with your choice.

Chas
 

sunsailor

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Thanks, I have read about the 183 day rule and although I would not exceed it I would be worried about being threatened with taxes like this as I believe the proof falls on the individual. Gibraltar seems fairly problem free. Things that are putting me off Gibraltar are the crowded waters with ships filling up with duty free fuel, strong winds and tides in the straights.
 

sailaboutvic

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Thanks, I have read about the 183 day rule and although I would not exceed it I would be worried about being threatened with taxes like this as I believe the proof falls on the individual. Gibraltar seems fairly problem free. Things that are putting me off Gibraltar are the crowded waters with ships filling up with duty free fuel, strong winds and tides in the straights.
How do you mean , " Things that are putting me off Gibraltar are the crowded waters with ships filling up with duty free fuel, strong winds and tides in the straights. " there may be a lot of ships anchored In the bay but in no means stop you from getting to Gib , are far are winds and tides are concern in the straights , you do as you would do any where else in the world , get the time and weather right before approaching them , gib is another love or hate place , I can stand it for a few days but then I need to escape .
 

Trident

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I'd pick (and I did) a Spanish place like Cartagena - we've had 12 rainy days in 6 months now - still swimming in 22 degree water in November and shorts and T shirts most day times in Jan Feb and March. 183 day rule is per calendar year not continuously so it resets on Jan 1st meaning its hard to over stay and any flights home or trips overnight to say Gib would come off the total as its days you spend in Spain not days the boat spends there...
 

sunsailor

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I'm quite new to sailing and then only in on lake coniston. So tides, supertankers etc would be quite daunting to me. A quiet Mediterranean coastline to explore would be ideal. The englishnes of Gibraltar appeals though. I'll look up Cartagena, thanks.
 

GrahamM376

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Quiet relative to Gibraltar I suppose. But as I have never sailed on the Spanish coast I have no idea what to expect

From what you say, I would suggest doing a day skipper course in tidal waters, maybe even in Gib. The western Med has many faces, nicely quiet and hot much of the time but, at others, strong winds and some very nasty seas. Having said that, compared to the Irish Sea, SW Spain & Gib are pretty tame.
 

sunsailor

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Good advice about the day skipper course. My only real experience is sailing the English lakes so heading out to sea would be a whole new ball game. Mind the winds in the lakes can change in intensity and direction very suddenly due to the mountains.
 

capnsensible

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Hiya. We have lived aboard in Gibraltar for the past 7 years and also spent lots of years previously here.

Marmite place I suppose, love it or hate it!

Just wondering how La Linea gets so much better winter weather when it's 600 yards away.....

Anyway, happy to answer any questions you got, will be back Friday pm, can send you a PM if you prefer.

To start, try Ocean Village website for prices, the other Marina is similar. La Linea smidge cheaper but not much there.
Gib car parking nightmare, but don't need one.

Lots of winter berths available, quite a few liveaboards.

Tax never been an issue. Have never been asked in Gib, Spain, Morocco or anywhere else come to that!!

Weather was good through til January, February and March were mostly pants. In fact got rained on today sailing from Marbella to Duquesa, but forecast for next few days Scorchio and should hopefully stay that way!

CS
 

milltech

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Although my boat has been in Duquesa some time I only briefly lived aboard. It's a nice place, very little fishing so the decks stay clean, 30km to Gib for a Morrisons stock up when needed. Personally I find Gib a bit claustrophobic, noisy and smelly from the motos, and no longer has a "British" feel to it. I'm happy to embrace what little Spanish culture exists on the coast.

Downside of Duquesa, and probably all Spanish marinas is the noise on shore in summer. They are surrounded by noisy bars and cafes, rather different to the UK, but at least there's loads of choice.
 

sunsailor

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Thanks John, I'm tempted to buy a camper van and explore Gibraltar and the Spanish coast before buying a boat and also get an idea of what the weather will be like in winter.
 
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