is aircon worth having in uk?

[Beamishken]

Having just read a thread about re-gassing aircon systems & the withdrawal of some of the gasses got me thinking about the aircon system in our boat

We imported the 2006 boat from the USA & it came with reverse cycle aircon installed however it is a 110v system & we converted everything else in the boat to 240v so for the last two seasons its just been out of commission

The boat is on the west coats of Scotland & we don't need aircon even over 4 weeks this summer which were the hottest we've ever had for a long time I never thought "I wish that air con worked"

My question is now we have an eberspacher for heating is the air con worth the locker space it takes up or should I just rip the system out & save lugging unnecessary weight about?

I had it in mind that I'd leave it where it was so it could in future be re-commissioned by fitting a 220 to 110 transformer if for example we decided to sell the boat or move it somewhere hot, both unlikely for at least the next 5 years or so

having read the thread on here about re-gassing older systems it seems that a large proportion of the system has to be replaced anyway to be compatible with the new replacement gasses so maybe I'm just lugging about a locker full of junk?

will the system in a 2006 boat be filled with the environmentally unfriendly gas?

I'd be interested in opinions & experiences to help me decide which way to go

cheers

ken

 

[Assassin]

If you don't need it then rip it out, if you do extend your range and intend going to warmer climes then it is well worth having.

 

[lynall]

I would hazard a guess that its R134 gas and im sure ive read thats due to be replaced with something greener, but have to assume it will go into the older systems, the ones that are trouble are the real old stuff R12? and the like.
New cars/trucks are still using R134 gas so i woudnt panic to much.

 

[adey]

will the system in a 2006 boat be filled with the environmentally unfriendly gas?

There will be a sticker or a plate on it somwhere that will tell you what gas and how much of it.

 

[omega2]

get it sorted! then you can leave your "foulies" on all the time LOL

 

[SEARANGER ANCASTER]

Having just read a thread about re-gassing aircon systems & the withdrawal of some of the gasses got me thinking about the aircon system in our boat

We imported the 2006 boat from the USA & it came with reverse cycle aircon installed however it is a 110v system & we converted everything else in the boat to 240v so for the last two seasons its just been out of commission

The boat is on the west coats of Scotland & we don't need aircon even over 4 weeks this summer which were the hottest we've ever had for a long time I never thought "I wish that air con worked"

My question is now we have an eberspacher for heating is the air con worth the locker space it takes up or should I just rip the system out & save lugging unnecessary weight about?

I had it in mind that I'd leave it where it was so it could in future be re-commissioned by fitting a 220 to 110 transformer if for example we decided to sell the boat or move it somewhere hot, both unlikely for at least the next 5 years or so

having read the thread on here about re-gassing older systems it seems that a large proportion of the system has to be replaced anyway to be compatible with the new replacement gasses so maybe I'm just lugging about a locker full of junk?

will the system in a 2006 boat be filled with the environmentally unfriendly gas?

I'd be interested in opinions & experiences to help me decide which way to go

cheers

ken

We have reverse cycle aircon and diesel heating. Agree only used aircon a couple of times this year in the hottest weather but we do use it in reverse for a quick blast of hot air. Its amazing how much heat is in the water in the clyde ! Even yesterday we had it on for a quick blast on our trip down to Troon for lunch. Worth keeping I would say.

 

[Tender_aft]

I was told a few years ago that aircon takes the moisture out of the air and so in my car I have it on all year round (whether the air is heated or cooled), and never get steamed windows. in a boat you are always fighting moisture and humidity. Dehumidfiers do the same job, but you have one built into the boats systems so why not use it.

 

[Nigelpickin]

Agree re dehumidifying property of AC. We had an american boat, open T top 36' and while the AC was not used for cooling it was effective for heating all year round and always run after showering and left on dehumidify tick over a lot of the time....

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I've had aircon on a couple of boats I've owned in the UK and I only ever used it to keep the system in commission rather than because we felt we needed it. However, IMHO, you should definitely not rip it out because it will be a selling point when you come to resell your boat, even if it is 110V, and especially as you say if your buyer is Med based. So IMHO you should try to keep it in working order even if you don't use it. As far as heating goes, we never liked the heat produced by the reverse cycle part of the aircon system. Firstly it takes a while for the system to start producing warm air, secondly it is a dry heat which my SWMBO in particular didn't like (made her eyes sore) and thirdly, the system will struggle to produce heat anyway if the water temp falls below 7-8degC. The heat produced by a diesel fired system like the Eberspacher is more instant and more comfortable IMHO

 

[Beamishken]

Hi thanks for all the advice it sounds a lot more positive than I thought after reading the other aircon thread ie £4k ish to convert to newer gas

my preferred option was to leave the system intact so it could be reinstated if the boat was ever sold or moved to warmer climes but it does sound like there may be a benefit in having the system working so we have the reverse cycle facility available

I thought the reverse cycle was fairly useless in our cold northern waters but it seems that people in the firth of clyde do get reasonable benefits from it. I also didn't realise about the dehumidifying bit either that's gotta be good on any boat

looks like another job on the toodo list before spring,check what gas is in the system & sort out a transformer to test the system works

thanks for all the usefull advice

ken

 

[superheat6k]

Hi thanks for all the advice it sounds a lot more positive than I thought after reading the other aircon thread ie £4k ish to convert to newer gas

my preferred option was to leave the system intact so it could be reinstated if the boat was ever sold or moved to warmer climes but it does sound like there may be a benefit in having the system working so we have the reverse cycle facility available

I thought the reverse cycle was fairly useless in our cold northern waters but it seems that people in the firth of clyde do get reasonable benefits from it. I also didn't realise about the dehumidifying bit either that's gotta be good on any boat

looks like another job on the toodo list before spring,check what gas is in the system & sort out a transformer to test the system works

thanks for all the usefull advice

ken

Your system will likely be R134a, R407C or R410A, in which case they are not yet due phase out and will be available for at least the next 10 years. However, the US are about 10 years behind the EU where refrigeration environmental matters are concerned, so your unit could be in R22, I would be amazed if it is on R12.

One major advantage of any reverse cycle Aircon system is that it when in heating mode it operates as a heat pump, and typically with a COP of 3-4:1. If you compare this form of heating with a traditional 1 kW heater of any type, with the old style 1 kW in means 1 kW heat out, but a heat pump operating at a COP of 3.5 means 1 kW in = 3.5 kW heat out. Refrigeration is the only technology that can cheat in this way with energy.

It complies with the first law of thermodynamics because it is simply moving (pumping) the heat from one place at one (colder) level to another at a higher (warmer) level. It is not creating energy from nothing.

Problem with a water cooled system is that water runs out if useable heat around 7oC, because it extracts heat from this water by cooling it down, and it can't safely cool it below 4oC before ice formation starts to occur within the (colder) heat exchanger (to cool the water the fridge system itself has to operate a few degrees cooler). Ice forming in a sealed vessel will wreck it just as freezing water will crack a pipe.

The final thing to consider is how you actually pay for the electricity. If on a meter then a heatpump makes sense, but if on a short stay most marinas simply levy a fixed fee, so as the visitor user you have no reason to worry how many kWH you consume during your stay.

This is not the place to explain the technical reasons for fridge systems being able to pump heat so efficiently, but Latent heat transfer when a liquid changes state to gas and vice versa plays a major part.

 

[Beamishken]

Your system will likely be R134a, R407C or R410A, in which case they are not yet due phase out and will be available for at least the next 10 years. However, the US are about 10 years behind the EU where refrigeration environmental matters are concerned, so your unit could be in R22, I would be amazed if it is on R12.QUOTE)

cheers I think the first thing to do is check the system & see if I can find anything telling me what gas is in the system & go from there.

in the other aircon thread it seemed to indicate if you had an 22system you had to replace a large amount of the system to run on the currently available gas

if I can get the system to run with just the addition of a transformer & maybe a partial re-gas then i'll leave it in and hopefully get some benefit if we ever get any hot days again!

are there any items require service that don't require an aircon expert I'm thinking intake water filters or pump impellers etc?

thanks for the input so far

ken

 

[superheat6k]

Your system will likely be R134a, R407C or R410A, in which case they are not yet due phase out and will be available for at least the next 10 years. However, the US are about 10 years behind the EU where refrigeration environmental matters are concerned, so your unit could be in R22, I would be amazed if it is on R12.QUOTE)

cheers I think the first thing to do is check the system & see if I can find anything telling me what gas is in the system & go from there.

in the other aircon thread it seemed to indicate if you had an 22system you had to replace a large amount of the system to run on the currently available gas

if I can get the system to run with just the addition of a transformer & maybe a partial re-gas then i'll leave it in and hopefully get some benefit if we ever get any hot days again!

are there any items require service that don't require an aircon expert I'm thinking intake water filters or pump impellers etc?

thanks for the input so far

ken

There isn't a simple answer to gas retrofit, indeed this area has become a major part of my business the last few years (large building water chillers and supermarket size fridges).

R407C offers a broadly similar operating characteristic to R22, but the lubricant compatibility considerably complicates its use. Changing to R407C is difficult on large system which have accessible systems. Small sealed systems have no points of ready access, so are proportionally more difficult. R410A is popular because it offers improved energy efficiency, but works at higher pressures. Conversely R134a is also efficient but is less energetic, so larger kit is required for the same job, and it works at lower pressures.

As far as the peripheral items are concerned then yes you should be able to service these with reasonable DIY hands on capability.

I will send you some further useful info by PM.