Is a Survey/BSS worth the paper its written on?

Croftie

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Took possession of my new (to me) boat just under a month ago. The vessel is a mid 1970's 32ft Dutch steel Pedro style boat.
It came with a BSS that was done less than a year ago (valid to 2018) and I commissioned a pre purchase survey.

I knew there was work to be done and that was one of the reasons I liked her. Being retired it was to be a "project". I didn't expect it to be a potential death trap....

The Survey indicated the fridge (gas, 12v, 240v) wasn't working. Actually it was on 240v BUT had I tried it on gas (I didn't) and found it working and used it I may not be writing this. The flexible metal exhaust hose between the fridge and hull vent outlet was lying on the floor behind the fridge. Not only was it not connected but was so corroded that it fell to dust in my hand. Guess it had been in that state a number of years.

Survey on the 240v electrics said "The Wiring appears serviceable although in places it needs securing to the boat"

Hmm, What comes next was visible without removing any panels etc., just by looking into cupboards.
2 x 13amp sockets had no earth wire, just connected with 2 core cable. The sockets had been "let into" the woodwork so the backs of the sockets were not only visible but it was clear to see (and touch if you wanted) 2 core wire going in.

Today I ripped out the wiring going to these 2 sockets replacing it with 3 core back to the RCD. Strange the supply from the RCD to the sockets was 3 core but there were numerous joins in the cables ending up with only 2 core. Again these joints were visible without dismanteling. Picture below of just one of the "joints" after removing 1 layer of tape. There were two like this.

connection.jpg

Yes that's correct, 240v wires twisted together and covered with insulating tape....

So if I (or some other not so experienced buyer) wasn't gassed by the fridge I could have been electrocuted.
 
The BBS survey wouldn't look for things like that, more interested in accidental fuel or oil spillage, adequate ventilation and secure fuel system.
I would be having a word with the pre purchase surveyor though.
 
On the BSS there was only one advisory comment.
8.9.1A Is the vessel provided with adequate fixed ventilation?
"The Vessel fell short of top fixed ventilation. The owner is aware"

On the subject of ventilation the gas bottle locker is steel box on the aft cabin roof. It has a drain (pipe) that finishes just above the rear cabin vent.
The surveyor did point this out as not being very sensible and should be relocated.
 
The BSS examiner should have been extremely interested in the gas systems.

The BSS is a complete joke when it comes to gas, being gas safe registered I used to have to fail things that BSS said were ok, as long as it didn't leak was all they worry about, you dont have to be qualified to work on gas to carry out a BSS test although some examiners are.
 
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My friend,a tame BSS examiner is hot on gas.Advised I change the cooker,gas lines and install a bubble tester.Also the dreaded gas water heater was removed for a calorifier..Some of the gas systems he and I see are mind boggling!!
 
Took possession of my new (to me) boat just under a month ago. The vessel is a mid 1970's 32ft Dutch steel Pedro style boat.
It came with a BSS that was done less than a year ago (valid to 2018) and I commissioned a pre purchase survey.

I knew there was work to be done and that was one of the reasons I liked her. Being retired it was to be a "project". I didn't expect it to be a potential death trap....

The Survey indicated the fridge (gas, 12v, 240v) wasn't working. Actually it was on 240v BUT had I tried it on gas (I didn't) and found it working and used it I may not be writing this. The flexible metal exhaust hose between the fridge and hull vent outlet was lying on the floor behind the fridge. Not only was it not connected but was so corroded that it fell to dust in my hand. Guess it had been in that state a number of years.

Survey on the 240v electrics said "The Wiring appears serviceable although in places it needs securing to the boat"

Hmm, What comes next was visible without removing any panels etc., just by looking into cupboards.
2 x 13amp sockets had no earth wire, just connected with 2 core cable. The sockets had been "let into" the woodwork so the backs of the sockets were not only visible but it was clear to see (and touch if you wanted) 2 core wire going in.

Today I ripped out the wiring going to these 2 sockets replacing it with 3 core back to the RCD. Strange the supply from the RCD to the sockets was 3 core but there were numerous joins in the cables ending up with only 2 core. Again these joints were visible without dismanteling. Picture below of just one of the "joints" after removing 1 layer of tape. There were two like this.

View attachment 52056

Yes that's correct, 240v wires twisted together and covered with insulating tape....

So if I (or some other not so experienced buyer) wasn't gassed by the fridge I could have been electrocuted.

If you don't know enough about electrics to do it safely then leave well alone, who ever joined those cables should have known better, a surveyor would not normally dismantle the boat to check the entire length of a cable, were these joins clearly visible or well hidden?
 
My friend,a tame BSS examiner is hot on gas.Advised I change the cooker,gas lines and install a bubble tester.Also the dreaded gas water heater was removed for a calorifier..Some of the gas systems he and I see are mind boggling!!

The BSS love those bubble testers but gas safe don't, there's only one way to test for soundness and that's with a manometer.
 
A gas fridge does not have to have an exhaust to be safe. The external vent pipe is only there to duct away the heat. The flame itself is not room sealed, even with a fully functioning vent, any CO generated will be exhausted into the cabin not up the tube and out. The top of the tube should also be fitted with a tilted "T" piece that the lower side vents into the cabin too.... the idea being that a gust of air would not go straight down the chimney and blow out the tiny flame.
No one dies because the flame is burning clean and blue, producing no CO. The same as any gas flame, like your cooker.
 
I would agree that the BSS is a great idea wasted by beauracratic nonsense and stupidity, ventilation requirements that are impractical for sea going vessels, copper pipes for diesel and poorly trained inspectors who do not know what the date on gas pipe means!

Waste of £120 every four years....
 
The BSS love those bubble testers but gas safe don't, there's only one way to test for soundness and that's with a manometer.

He uses one of those too:)
He is very strict on gas and petrol.Some are not.He is a time served engineer,boat owner and is a BSS examiner as a hobby in his retirement.
 
A gas fridge does not have to have an exhaust to be safe. The external vent pipe is only there to duct away the heat. The flame itself is not room sealed, even with a fully functioning vent, any CO generated will be exhausted into the cabin not up the tube and out. The top of the tube should also be fitted with a tilted "T" piece that the lower side vents into the cabin too.... the idea being that a gust of air would not go straight down the chimney and blow out the tiny flame.
No one dies because the flame is burning clean and blue, producing no CO. The same as any gas flame, like your cooker.

What a load of ****, an unflued gas fridge is an accident waiting to happen. A flue is designed to remove the POC from the appliance, The only non room sealed appliance that is acceptable now is a cooker, any thing else has to be room sealed. An unglued fridge will get a warning notice if tested by gas safe engineer.
 
He uses one of those too:)
He is very strict on gas and petrol.Some are not.He is a time served engineer,boat owner and is a BSS examiner as a hobby in his retirement.

I know what you mean, some examiners are very good and others I wouldn't trust near my boat.
 
If you don't know enough about electrics to do it safely then leave well alone, who ever joined those cables should have known better, a surveyor would not normally dismantle the boat to check the entire length of a cable, were these joins clearly visible or well hidden?

Not well hidden,
1, open a cupboard door {housing the RCD box} and the cable(s) were clipped to the side wall. Obvious join with red insulating tape wrapped around.
2, running through an under seat locker plainly in view a white coloured cable joined to a grey coloured one, again with red tape.
 
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