Is a soft shackle secured with a knot more or less secure than one with a dog bone shackle.

[Neeves]

As the title suggests.

Part of the question relate to the ease of making a knotted soft shackle - many can make the securement knot, some cannot, or maybe not securely. Possibly with the costs of soft shackles from China - it does not matter. But is a dog bone more or less secure, easier to manipulate. I'm thinking particularly, of course, on use of the soft shackle to secure a snubber or bridle to chain. As threads have shown I prefer a metal to metal securement, which might be an emotive choice - totally lacking objective analysis - others swear by soft shackles. I also like the ease with which a metal to metal connection can be made one handed.

I'd have sworn by a Witchard hook (which are not cheap), without a second thought - until the pin bent and I could not release the snubber without using a Mole wrench. How many have a mole wrench (and why) in their pocket when they retrieve the rode. I also think of those with long (actually not so long) snubbers forward of the bow that might drag on the seabed if the wind drops off.

Jonathan

 

[thinwater]

Excellent question.

If the dog bone is too long (which would seem to make it more secure) it can be prone to snagging and opening. This is counter intuitive, but the dog bone overhangs should be only a little larger than that of a soft shackle knot. That is enough. I learned this lesson on reacher sheets that were dragged across cap shrouds. Shortened, they are secure.

The advantage on my boat is that dog bone shackles are easier to handle, particularly when it is cold.

 

[noelex]

We use both dogbone and button knot soft shackles. We have never had one release accidentally so I don’t think there is any practical difference to the security.

There are many options for chain to snubber (or bridle) connections. The best policy is to try the options and see which you prefer. Personally, I am not a fan of metal to metal attachments between the chain and the snubber. Soft attachments (such as soft shackles) will not wear the galvanising on the chain links, they cannot jam or bend. Even under very high load in an emergency they can be cut.

 

[Neeves]

We use both dogbone and button knot soft shackles. We have never had one release accidentally so I don’t think there is any practical difference to the security.

There are many options for chain to snubber (or bridle) connections. The best policy is to try the options and see which you prefer. Personally, I am not a fan of metal to metal attachments between the chain and the snubber. Soft attachments (such as soft shackles) will not wear the galvanising on the chain links, they cannot jam or bend. Even under very high load in an emergency they can be cut.

You are are an experienced cruiser and I would expect you to ensure your snubber attachment did not trail on the seabed. Less experienced owners may not have your background - so I wonder have you often anchored, had your soft shackle dragged over the seabed...I am also conscious that many long term cruisers, some swear by soft shackles.

I have not found that metal to metal connections are an issue. All anchor chain has innumerable metal to metal, or gal to gal connections and evidence of gal corrosion at the crown is not reported as an issue. Chain abrading on sand is an issue as chain that is to be regalvanised always seem to show wear on the long of the links (where they rub on the seabed) rather than preferential wear at the crowns. Historically if people used a snubber they would have used a chain hook, other devices are more recent as usage of snubbers has increased. I don't recall anyone complaining that their chain hook, in any way, damaging the chain - chain hook failing (breaking) (or disengaging) is another issue (which can be overcome).

Slight drift - I do note that there is a tendency to use a sleeve on soft shackles (all those cheap soft shackles from China) which implies to me that abrasion of an 'unsleeved' shackle is (or was) an issue. It maybe, of course, this is simply belt and braces - and unnecessary.

Jonathan

 

[noelex]

You are are an experienced cruiser and I would expect you to ensure your snubber attachment did not trail on the seabed. Less experienced owners may not have your background - so I wonder have you often anchored, had your soft shackle dragged over the seabed...I am also conscious that many long term cruisers, some swear by soft shackles.

Dyneema (HMWPE) is quite resistant to abrasion, especially the newer and better products where each individual fibre is coated, but soft shackles do wear more than hard shackles. They need periodic replacement. Soft shackles are not expensive.

Our soft shackle on the chain to snubber attachment does not normally touch the seabed. We are at anchor almost full time and we usually replace the soft shackle after about a year to 18 months or 300-500 nights at anchor. This is over cautious in terms of wear, but newer soft shackles are stiffer and therefore nicer to handle. It also provides an opportunity to try out new designs.

The older soft shackle is normally recycled to be utilised for a minor role such as hanging up coils of line.

All anchor chain has innumerable metal to metal, or gal to gal connections and evidence of gal corrosion at the crown is not reported as an issue. Chain abrading on sand is an issue as chain that is to be regalvanised always seem to show wear on the long of the links (where they rub on the seabed) rather than preferential wear at the crowns.

This is typical if you anchor rarely. Most of the corrosion occurs in chain locker.

For those boat that anchor frequently the wear is most pronounced at the crown of the chain where there is metal to metal contact. The movement of the chain while anchoring will wear away the galvanising and eventually the metal of the chain.

 

[Neeves]

Why am I left with the impression that most people don't use soft shackles, few use dog bones and most continue to use steel shackles in their rode - or people find the whole topic BORING! Others also find it BORING as they use soft shackles without thought - except for that constant search for where else they can use them.

Jonathan

The use of soft shackles might also be the focus of those that live aboard, and have spare time to make the devices. Everyone else, largely, is quite happy with steel. Interesting no-one really commented on dog bones (so not a very exciting market ) - the lazy man's way to make a soft shackle

J

 

[alahol2]

Does anyone use soft shackles for joining anchor rodes, rope to chain, chain to chain?
Even chain to anchor???

 

[Bristolfashion]

I use lots of (home made) soft shackles, but none on the anchoring set up - except to secure the anchor when not deployed.

Rope to chain - splice
Chain to anchor - galvanised shackle
Chain to chain - galvanised shackle
Snubber to chain - chain hook in normal conditions

 

[noelex]

Does anyone use soft shackles for joining anchor rodes, rope to chain, chain to chain?
Even chain to anchor???

The best characteristic of chain is its exceptional abrasion resistance. Soft shackles have significantly less abrasion resistance than chain. Therefore, I would not consider a soft shackle for the chain to anchor connection or chain to chain connection as you compromising one of the best attributes of the rode.

If the connection between the rope and chain is permanent there are better solutions such as a rope/chain splice

If you want a detachable connection between rope rode and anchor chain, a soft shackle is an option, but while soft shackles are very secure they do not have the absolute security of a hard shackle moused with wire and this is a better option in my view.

 

[noelex]

Incidentally you can "mouse" a soft shackle by using a cable tie around the throat of the eye.

 

[thinwater]

Incidentally you can "mouse" a soft shackle by using a cable tie around the throat of the eye.

View attachment 181555

Interesting.

When would you do this? Something almost permanent, prone to flogging/loosening, but not a lashing. I'm trying to think of an application.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

My floating fairleads for my code 0 (LFRs) spliced into dyneema strops) would benefit. I’ve had to soft shackle them to save space as they share an attachment with the jackstays.

 

[thinwater]

My floating fairleads for my code 0 (LFRs) spliced into dyneema strops) would benefit. I’ve had to soft shackle them to save space as they share an attachment with the jackstays.

I have a Corsair F-24 and would love to see your reacher fairlead set up. I have 3D leads on my jib and a barber hauler on my reacher.

 

[noelex]

Interesting.

When would you do this? Something almost permanent, prone to flogging/loosening, but not a lashing. I'm trying to think of an application.

Soft shackles are very secure without mousing so the cable tie trick is rarely needed, but it can be useful on a semi permanent connection. We have only one "moused" soft shackle on board at the moment connecting the bitter end of our rode to the boat.

You can also "mouse" a soft shackle simply to make it more difficult to undo. This can be useful if you have young inquisitive kids on board or to slow down opportunistic thieves from quickly undoing items on the dinghy such as the stern anchor.

 

[Neeves]

Incidentally you can "mouse" a soft shackle by using a cable tie around the throat of the eye.

View attachment 181555

If you sleeve the soft shackle but the sleeve is over length then the sleeve can hold the eye closed but slides along the soft shackle to allow manipulation, two hands make it easier.