Is a saildrive an abomination?

charles_reed said:
In fairness, not Yanmar in Japan, but their distributor, either in the main European one in the Netherlands or (most likely) their distributor in the UK.
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Nope, Yanmar in Japan. Ask any Yanmar dealer. They will tell you, with a sigh, that spares prices are set by the factory and vary regionally. Dealers are also limited in the area they can sell to, so an east coast US dealer can only sell to the east cost of the US.
 
I had a boat with a Volvo 13hp saildrive ( I forget the designation ) and the diaphragm was not replaced in 10 years to my knowledge ( no I didn't know the 7 year rule then ).

That gave no problems but the core plugs corroded through at the worst moment - always carry araldite rapid, the anodes were fine - , and later the nasty zinc alloy boss for the folding prop cracked, which was ouchy expensive.

Top Tip; one day I found the small coolant water inlets choked by what looked like plankton, the dinghy inflator pump onto the ( above waterline ) inlet hose blew the stuff off.
 
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Saildrives, work of the devil I tell you!! Went and changed my sail drive gaitor a couple of years ago, damned thing, all that expense and hard work. The one I took off, 18 years old it was, just as good as the new one I installed, what a rip off!! :-)
 
galadriel said:
Saildrives, work of the devil I tell you!! Went and changed my sail drive gaitor a couple of years ago, damned thing, all that expense and hard work. The one I took off, 18 years old it was, just as good as the new one I installed, what a rip off!! :-)
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I think it's a good example of the marine industry ' Gotcha '; there is always the fear that if the diaphragm did give up it would make a torpedo hit seem like childs' play, plus nowadays even if hit by a falling satellite woe betide when the insurers ask ' and when did Sir last replace the gaiter ? '

Compared to electric cars where the makers with any sense cover at least a fair bit of the battery replacement cost...
 
savageseadog said:
Getting back to saildrives, I've had thirty years good service from saildrive driven yachts, no issues at all. The Yanmar saildrive has an inner and outer seal, ie two, so failure of one isn't a problem. We've consulted with our insurers and they accept that an inspection of the inner one will suffice, no need to replace periodically.
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Hi savageseadog, I'm with maby on this, I'd consider changing insurer on the basis of an inspection. What exactly does the inspection entail (please don't say removing it for a visual check :)) and who is qualified to make the assessment. Please pm me if you'd prefer
 
Tranona said:
Difficult to see how you can come to that conclusion. If there really was a high level of customer dissatisfaction, think it would have been noticed inb the last 30 years.

In reality the pressure is from the builders on the engine manufacturers rather than the other way round. Jeanneau for example are progressively changing to saildrives after years of using shaft drives. The benefits are obvious for both builders and users, allowing more compact, more refined installations at no cost penalty. Difficult to install higher powered engines with appropriate size props in today's modern shallow hulls without having the engine well forward and the shaft hanging on a vulnerable P bracket. Latest design also offer the possibility of a steerable drive to improve low speed handling under power.

Changing the seal should you decide to do it, is not the horror story you think it is, provided the builder has left room in the installation to do it. On my Bavaria it was done comfortably in a day by two experienced fitters - arrived at 9.30 and running by 4pm the same day.
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This is a reasoned argument in their favour and I appreciate you taking the time to script it.

With regard to customer satisfaction, I'm afraid that I'm of the view that we, the punter, carry no weight as an individual. I've tried looking at the Bene HQ website and there's no "contact us". Are you aware of anyway to feedback directly to the designer and builder? I have little confidence that anything fedback to a dealer would ever get through. I would love the opportunity to tell Bene of my concerns with this feature.

Secondly, two guys for 5 hours doesn't fall under my definition of service and maintenance. It's more of an overhaul and should not be necessary on a 5 year old boat, imho.

At 41ft my boat is not small but there's very little room around the engine and saildrive. Having to remove the companionway steps, the inlet system, exhaust, cooling water, fuel, electrics, the engine its self and so on to get access just seems completely ridiculous to me.

On the plus side, a lot of people do seem to have positive experience of longevity. I also understand that there are two seals with a moisture sensor in between, that seems reassuring. Anyone have a section / schematic drawing?
 
Seajet said:
The only moisture sensor re the saildrive on my boat was my ankles but that was 1989 !
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Stork_III said:
And no reported failures in that time, many haven't been changed in 15-20 years. When changed there is usually little difference to be seen between the old and new.
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+1 when I changed mine (Bukh) it was impossible to tell the old from the new seal. It took about a day with the help of a friend.
 
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savageseadog said:
Getting back to saildrives, I've had thirty years good service from saildrive driven yachts, no issues at all. The Yanmar saildrive has an inner and outer seal, ie two, so failure of one isn't a problem. We've consulted with our insurers and they accept that an inspection of the inner one will suffice, no need to replace periodically.
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My insurer has put it in writing that ignoring the Volvo seven year recommendation will not compromise my insurance so long as there are regular visual checks.
 
davidjackson said:
This is a reasoned argument in their favour and I appreciate you taking the time to script it.

With regard to customer satisfaction, I'm afraid that I'm of the view that we, the punter, carry no weight as an individual. I've tried looking at the Bene HQ website and there's no "contact us". Are you aware of anyway to feedback directly to the designer and builder? I have little confidence that anything fedback to a dealer would ever get through. I would love the opportunity to tell Bene of my concerns with this feature.

Secondly, two guys for 5 hours doesn't fall under my definition of service and maintenance. It's more of an overhaul and should not be necessary on a 5 year old boat, imho.

At 41ft my boat is not small but there's very little room around the engine and saildrive. Having to remove the companionway steps, the inlet system, exhaust, cooling water, fuel, electrics, the engine its self and so on to get access just seems completely ridiculous to me.

On the plus side, a lot of people do seem to have positive experience of longevity. I also understand that there are two seals with a moisture sensor in between, that seems reassuring. Anyone have a section / schematic drawing?
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Can't help with how individuals can give effective feedback to manufacturers who distance themselves from the individual by selling through dealers. However they cannot be ignorant or dismissive of customers needs otherwise they would not become the biggest builder in the world. Clearly successful in meeting your needs as you have just spent a substantial sum on one of their products!

As to the poor access, this is not new with Bennys. When I was choosing a new boat for charter work the big negative with Bennys was the poor engine installation, which was a shaft drive Yanmar. I chose a Bavaria with a saildrive with very easy access. However in the charter business both brands seem equally successful.

Not sure that answers your concerns, but if you really don't like a feature of a product you always have the choice of not buying it.
 
doris said:
My insurer has put it in writing that ignoring the Volvo seven year recommendation will not compromise my insurance so long as there are regular visual checks.
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There you are!

How easy is it to see the Volvo one? The Yanmar inner seal is in plain view, the outer/lower one is very hard to see, if you can see it at all. There is the previously mentioned sensor too, I would suggest checking it. The greatest danger is being lifted on the sail drive which could disrupt or tear them but I've known them to survive that. I suppose a rope round the prop fastened to something solid could cause problems especially if there is a strong current or waves. Both of these issues could equally happen to a conventional shaft drive. The shaft drive would become unusable and/or could leak water into the boat or even draw the shaft out. The seals could be stressed without you realising it I suppose.
 
Tranona said:
As to the poor access, this is not new with Bennys. When I was choosing a new boat for charter work the big negative with Bennys was the poor engine installation, which was a shaft drive Yanmar. I chose a Bavaria with a saildrive with very easy access. However in the charter business both brands seem equally successful.
.
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The access for engine removal to replace the saildrive gaiter on a Bavaria (I changed one on a 36) is excellent.
 
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