IPS

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nicho

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I admit I've never tried it, but I am not a fan of IPS. This feeling is enforced by currently watching someone in an IPS powered motor cruiser berthing his boat. I have never seen anything like it - the boat is lurching back and forth, and side to side really quite violently. Anyone on the foredeck would be in some danger of going over the side. It certainly makes the driver look like he's either a heavy handed boy racer, or a numpty. The manoeuverability certainly looks to be what they claim, but it's not a pretty sight.

This is the second IPS boat I've seen acting this way in confined areas, but really, should it be like that??
 
I agree nicho, have made the same observation on here. IPS software seems to operate the engines too hard when berthing. In a well-driven ordinary boat you're gliding in neutral most of the time when berthing, yet IPS is hard on the power, this way then that, from what I've seen. Perhaps though it is the joystick operator not the software? I dunno
 
Agree - I've seen the same. Anyway it takes all the fun out of boating, I love berthing. It's like flying a plane, taking off and landing are the best bits. The crunch for IPS may be what the bills will be like for maintenance and repairs on boats over 5 yo. This piece of the cake has yet to be eaten, and hopefully will prove tastey but could end up slightly over cooked, or even cause the runs! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

IPS seems targetted at skippers who can't drive - ducking now /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
I too agree there does seem a lot of Huff & Puff.

i have given a couple with and without joystick and careful use as with throttles allows a more graceful approach; but its too easy to get carried away and use far too much 'thrust' which means you have to over correct and so on.

Would love to try the Zeus sky hook system now.
 
Interesting you not being a fan if you have never tried it. No lurching when I dock or 3 dogs falling off the foredeck. Have let a few of my friends have a go and they thought it was great. Swmbo able to bring boat into marina weeks after getting boat so as someone getting on in years thats some comfort knowing that if something happened to me she would get back ashore safely. Will admit possible maintenance issues still to emerge.
 
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I admit I've never tried it, but I am not a fan of IPS. This feeling is enforced by currently watching someone in an IPS powered motor cruiser berthing his boat. I have never seen anything like it - the boat is lurching back and forth, and side to side really quite violently. Anyone on the foredeck would be in some danger of going over the side. It certainly makes the driver look like he's either a heavy handed boy racer, or a numpty. The manoeuverability certainly looks to be what they claim, but it's not a pretty sight.

This is the second IPS boat I've seen acting this way in confined areas, but really, should it be like that??

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You're right, IPS can be very "rocky" if used the wrong way. It really does need a very light touch and not too much at a time. We have done a lot of teaching on IPS and it does take some getting used to at first. Now I can say that ladies drive IPS boats very well, they have a much lighter touch!

Used correctly IPS on the joy stick can be a very valuable aid, but I still say that you need to understand how the boat moves so you can maximise the full IPS potential. When I'm on an IPS boat with a joy stick I have to say that I don't use it much, but then I don't use a bow thruster much either!

It is very useful for getting in and out of really tight spaces, but shafts can provide you with just as much control.
 
Agree with Solitaire. I've only had one go with IPS, but what happens is that there is a slight lag before the joystick movement takes effect (presumably while the pods are being vectored). I guess what's happening is that drivers are positioning the joystick, not getting a quick response, so adding more movement to the joystick - in the meantime the pods are vectored so you get a sudden burst of thrust which then needs to be corrected and so on. Used with patience it can be quite cool.

Mind you, inexperienced hands can do the same thing with shafts - too much speed = too much power needed to correct it and so on.
 
Like with everything it takes a bit of getting used, once you have cracked it, wey hey its fun factor ten ! the things you can do with it is just amazing. I don't think it takes the fun out of driving/ berthing at all, what it does do (when you have clicked with it) is take the stress and sweaty hands out of equation.


some of the reason for the lurching and vroom vroom is the software is not calibrated properly, it can be either on or off. Nearly every IPS boat I have driven has never been set up properly, our man gets on with his PDA twiddles and fiddles and away you go.

I have a three year old 56 triple IPS with a customer and factor out the third engine costs the maintainence is no more than D6's with DPH legs.

It seems to me nearly all the negative comments about IPS come from non IPS owners, talk to nearly everyone who owns an IPS boat and the reverse is true. IPS is not for every application and it is not the be all of everything but for SC's and HT's it is a very trick bit of kit and certainly from my side of the fence after two seasons of ownership when people who have had a 47 or 52 and looking to trade up only want to look at IPS boats (56, 70 and forthcoming 63). The first three 63's have been ordered by current IPS owners.
 
Any innovation that assists a new owner to quickly aquire close quarter manouvering skills, has got to be a positive move. No one likes seeing folks out of control in a marina, especially if they are your neighbour!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
I've been lucky enough to test both systems as we sell the boats that have it fitted, and can honestly say Volvo is like an old non synchro car gearbox compared to a modern paddle shift gearbox.
If you try a Zeus you will never have an IPS, part of the problem is that IPS sits at 90 degress to the hull bottom so the legs a splayed depending on how much 'V' the hull has, whereas Zeus legs are completely vertical irrespective of hull shape.
When manouvering the IPS allows greater steering angles than when under way so this introduces a large heeling moment as one leg points outboard and upwards and the other points inboard and downwards, the thrust lines now are perfect for rocking the boat violently as it did on the Northstar 40 I tried.
The Zues does what it says on the box, after two minutes you are completely at home with it, doing bow-in pirouettes around buoys or Skyhooking 1m from the quayside, and the boat goes where you point the joystick.
I found that I dreaded moving the Northstar around our marine as it was so unpredictable always going either too much forward or sideways in respect to what you had demanded. I reverted to driving it on the the throttles like a normal shaft drive.
We have a pretty tight marina and I feel happier with our V70 than a 40 ft with IPS.
 
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part of the problem is that IPS sits at 90 degress to the hull bottom so the legs a splayed depending on how much 'V' the hull has, whereas Zeus legs are completely vertical irrespective of hull shape.


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I have heard from a very good source that CMD are going to try fitting Zeus the same way as IPS without tunnels as they have some doubts.
 
What strikes me about IPS is that, if the marketing blurb is to be believed, anyone can use it with no boating knowledge, just point the stick and the boat goes there.

Now I can totally see the benefits of this for novice boaters, but to my mind it's a bit like teaching a child to use a calculator to add up 2x3 and see 6 appear on the screen with no understanding of exactly how 2x3 works out to be 6. On the one hand that child will be able to work out multiplication sums much faster than the child taught how multiplication works, but he'll have no understanding of how he got to the answer.

IPS seems a bit like that. Sure, you can push the stick and the boat goes sideways into the wind and into the berth, but it teaches you no clue as to how to handle a boat because it simply does it for you, just like the calculator does for the kid that can't do maths.

Is that a good thing I wonder? Does it matter?

Does it matter if a child cannot add or multiply, so long as he has a calculator in his pocket?

I'd say yes it does matter in both cases.
 
Nice summary Ari.

I rather enjoy the challange of 'driving' the boat, but can also see how the GPS fix and Skyhook of these systems can be useful.

I suppose its only an issue if IPS/ZEUS/AXIUS is your first boat and you never learn any different.
 
it is not exactly so what I heard, is more that many builders find it easier to install IPS straight from the box then to make the tunnels, so ZF is experimaneting to install them in a similar IPS fashion
on paper IPS looks simpler but infact it is not so....
 
I tried IPS on a Fiord for the first time and it was superb, easy to use and made berthing a doddle even in very confined quarters.
 
I hear what you are saying, but it also gives the less experienced an opportunity to overcome the "berthing monster". The gut churning fear on messing it up.

Experience comes with exposure. Do you think the advent of pod berthing assistance could have a line drawn back to the days when automatic gearboxes in cars where first introduced.

I imagine the purists would have said, "this isn't real driving, they couldn't be feeling the gear changes".

Just a thought.
 
Automatic gearboxes don't help you park though do they? You still have to line the car up and have the understanding and ability to guide the car into its space.

"Experience comes from exposure"

Well quite. So if IPS removes all exposure how are you ever going to gain experience?

I can enjoy a flight on a plane with someone else piloting it, but I couldn't fly one myself (beyond steering it left and right once in the air). So is it a good idea that I get in a plane with automatically guided take off and landing and go for a flight on my own?

And could I call myself an airplane pilot if I did...?
 
Ari

The reference was really made in the sense of, don't fear technology. This could be the future.

Some very competent mariners are going to (and already are)using this system, purley because they like technology, and new things.
Some others because they need assistance.

Even the most basic operator will get a boat to the berth, he will know what he wants the boat to do, he knows where he is going.
Is it perhaps a degree of arrogance that says, because you can't do it the traditional way, you will stay in until you learn, or go home!

Those of us who make a living in the boating profession appreciate there are clients, living in this right here, right now society, that pay the bucks to get the results. After all we need the business.

These systems appear to fulfill a pretty broad criteria. It won't suit everybody, but for those it does, come out and get exposed! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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