Ips v legs v shafts

MapisM said:
Pah, anyone mad enough to buy a P108 who doesn't go for the full monty (with a turbine in the middle, propelling a waterjet) ain't worth a lot of attention... :D :p
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Actually the tripple only gains a few more knots for 1/3 rd or so extra fuel burn + another engine to service - over a pair of larger , engines ? Plus prob knackers engine room access -buts that's the captains ,not the owners problem .
For a given speed say 40 knots + the fuel burn / day or trip may be less than a similar size boat chugging along at 22 knots .
Any how off topic
Back on topic --- water in the oil through seal failure = more £££ for Ips v OD caused by rope / line etc .
Has a seal been damaged or not -that's the €6400 Q ? :o
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kLgta21LGzE
 
For those interested, IPS is a small vessel variation on the Azipod and vaguely the Voith Schneider systems, whose large ship and tug systems pioneered under vessel propulsion systems. Google then follow the Wiki links for some great information.

These systems are also used on powered gas & oil rigs and offshore support vessels requiring to attain a fixed station.

The Pod is not an acronym, its simply the underwater device named from its shape.

A pal of mine has just bought a new Windy with twin IPS Pods with D6 engines. He seems very pleased with it so far.

I am happy to moor next to a boat with pods or outdrives but I would never ever have either.

The forward facing props look particularly vulnerable to catching stuff you would prefer not to catch, after all with a p bracket or outdrive there is a chance the item would pass over and clear.
 
seastoke said:
£2.5k seems a lot can u break down pls
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No problem
Approx annual cost for both POD units,
Oil £600.00
Hull Anodes £121.00
Prop Anodes £118.00
Oil Filters£28.00
Labour £180.00

it is very unlikely that you would need to replace the anodes every year, the oil can be changed with the boat in the water for 2 services, but I think it’s not a very good idea, as you only get about half the oil out, and then not from the bottom where the sludge settles.

Unfortunately the oil's a killer, Volvo spec because the warrantee insists that one uses the preferred product. My view is that we will continue to do so as we would not want to Volvo to mitigate a problem further down the line: but I'll take advice on that.

Then around £500 per block

I'll get a free lift this year but that will change for us next season

£500 contingency

Of course I request as much for the budget as Ann will allow so that underspend results in Brownie points :)

So that's the rational, hope it helps :)
 
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Jack Haines said:
It's the "new" 46 Chinook. It's got IPS600.

I think the 48 Triton can be specced with IPS, too.
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Have you reviewed it yet Jack? And do they put out a shaft of or stern drive version to compare against?

I'm interested to hear how they've set the pods up and if they've managed to retain the sportage of their heritage....

I'm off to windy dot com for a looksee :)

I guess that Windy are on the look out for inexperienced customers; still they should manage to sell one or two IPS out of every hundred or so boats ;)
 
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superheat6k said:
For those interested, IPS is a small vessel variation on the Azipod and vaguely the Voith Schneider systems, whose large ship and tug systems pioneered under vessel propulsion systems. Google then follow the Wiki links for some great information.
These systems are also used on powered gas & oil rigs and offshore support vessels requiring to attain a fixed station.
The Pod is not an acronym, its simply the underwater device named from its shape.
.
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I went to visit the Polarcus Naila a few years ago in Trinidad - she is a seismic research vessel, and had been built a few years earlier with azipod propulsion units.
Lots of photos of her on Marinetraffic - she is currently working in Indonesia.
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais...:9538098/mmsi:311012400/vessel:POLARCUS NAILA

I visited her in drydock - she had previously attempted to drydock a week earlier, but literally 'fell off' the keel blocks as she was 'drying out', and punched a few holes in the hull bottom in the process. Luckily these were in way of double bottom tanks for salt water ballast, so no danger of her flooding.
The second attempt was successful - here is a photo of her in the drydock.

P7270920_zpsgymiojx1.jpg


The main reason for drydocking (initially) was to replace the port azipod unit which had already sustained failure, never mind it was only a few years old.
Once she was successfully docked, they also had to crop out the damaged shell plating and weld in new plates.

This photo shows the relative size of the azipods :

P7270906_zpsxa42m6pu.jpg


Here is a side view :
P7270911_zpsnsecojv9.jpg


And she is also fitted with a bow thruster :

P7270899_zpswiirrbmt.jpg


I have since heard that she went into drydock again sometime later for a major conversion job to change her propulsion system from Azipods to conventional shafts, because they had experienced so many problems with the Azipods.
 
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Bajansailor said:
I have since heard that she went into drydock again sometime later for a major conversion job to change her propulsion system from Azipods to conventional shafts, because they had experienced so many problems with the Azipods.
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Wow, that's bound to be a helluva conversion. By chance, do you know if those pods were built by Thrustmaster of Texas?
It looks like they are, judging by your pics (see below), and if so I'm surprised to hear that they created so many problems, because their reputation is outstanding.
Nothing to see with things like IPS and Zeus pods, which are just toys in comparison...
z-drive-azimuthing-thruster.jpg
 
Nigelpickin said:
Have you reviewed it yet Jack? And do they put out a shaft of or stern drive version to compare against?

I'm interested to hear how they've set the pods up and if they've managed to retain the sportage of their heritage....

I'm off to windy dot com for a looksee :)

I guess that Windy are on the look out for inexperienced customers; still they should manage to sell one or two IPS out of every hundred or so boats ;)
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I have, a quick spin before SIBS last year in conditions that weren't ever going to tell us too much about the hull: http://www.mby.com/videos/latest/video-windy-45-chinook-review

There is a sterndrive option, I believe, and the previous model - the 44 - was sterndrives only. We tested that but didn't get a video.
 
I was always a bit drawn to the 44, but to my mind they had not got it quite right. The 45 looks much better and I think there was talk of making a two berth version ?
Probably the only boat I would have an ambition to own.
 
The real question and an interesting one will be if the fact a boat has been fitted with the IPS,detracts or enhances its secondhand value.Especially as the boat descends down the food chain.
Suspect that a older boat with an Arneson drives is going to be very difficult to shift.
The reliability of the system over time will be paramount. A good reputation will be vital,any history of problems will surely hit resale of boat.
 
oldgit said:
The real question and an interesting one will be if the fact a boat has been fitted with the IPS,detracts or enhances its secondhand value.Especially as the boat descends down the food chain.
Suspect that a older boat with an Arneson drives is going to be very difficult to shift.
The reliability of the system over time will be paramount. A good reputation will be vital,any history of problems will surely hit resale of boat.
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Not especially.. surely as an owner you are only interested in your own depreciation..what happens down the food chain is not of much interest to you surely.. you are much more focused on your latest toy!!
 
gjgm said:
surely as an owner you are only interested in your own depreciation
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Ermm, that's precisely oldgit point, as I understand it.
If in the future nobody will want your boat, it's your own depreciation which is going to suffer, not just the next owner...?!?
 
MapisM said:
Ermm, that's precisely oldgit point, as I understand it.
If in the future nobody will want your boat, it's your own depreciation which is going to suffer, not just the next owner...?!?
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Well, I guess if you are buying some monster with arnesen drives, you are not too bothered about that issue, was my point ! As well as the depreciation curve is not going to be constant. If it drops off (more) heavily from say 5-8 years, what do you care if you upgraded after two years, anyway?
If you are into more specialist machines in more niche markets, that is your fun factor. If you are worried about money buy a popular mass market offering. In fact, don't buy a boat at all ;)
 
As a Bavaria Virtess 420 owner on IPS 600's, I thought I'd share my thoughts and some fuel figures.
I zeroed the counters about May last year so it represents most on my cruising from last year.
IMG_2196 (4).jpg
If my calculations are correct it works out at an average fuel burn of .86gal per NM for both engines. This seems very low considering most of our running is between 20 & 25 knots, with the occasional potter at 7 knots. But when you look at the 26l/h fuel burn and multiply that by hrs run it, gives a total fuel used of 1066lts. Looking at my fuel receipts from last year I'd say that is pretty much correct.
Not bad it would seem
Full annual service by RK Marine came in at £2621.00 which is a bit steep, but it was done in 2 stages to enable the drive oils to be fully replaced whist the boat was out the water, and the engines done whist in the water, and RK Marine are hardly known for there competitive prices. The IPS element of the bill came to £1238.00 inc anodes, which as mentioned earlier, the exhaust ones are cast iron, and I imagine would probably do 3 to 5 years as they showed no sign of corrosion at all.
So it would seem (with a bit of added man maths) the more use the boat gets, the more you save.
I personally like IPS due to the ease of berthing, I previously had 2 twin stern drive boats over a relatively short period, so due to my relative lack of experience a IPS boat seem a logical choice. Mine is equipped with DPS which will hold the boat in position against the wind/tide, this I think, is as useful as the joystick function as it allows me to do everything, lines, fenders, etc myself, rather than stressing swmbo out.
But.... If I had already owned a boat on shafts, I'm not sure I'd want to go from a simple design to something as complex as IPS, I think it is aimed at relatively inexperienced boaters who need a reasonably large boat straight away due to kids etc, maybe, possibly, who knows.:cool:
 
Sishoe said:
But.... If I had already owned a boat on shafts, I'm not sure I'd want to go from a simple design to something as complex as IPS, I think it is aimed at relatively inexperienced boaters who need a reasonably large boat straight away due to kids etc, maybe, possibly, who knows.
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Bingo.

Btw, I suppose you eventually managed to master your 2 sterndrives boats, 'cause if not, you wouldn't have bought another one after the first... :)
And if that is the case, rest assured that you passed the "inexperienced" level with flying colours, and you would have had ZERO problems with twin shafts.
In fact, sterndrives are very efficient, but while in general there's nothing better for small(ish) fast boats, when it comes to maneuverability, there's actually nothing worse! :ambivalence:
 
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