IOW ferry

[lionelz]

On entering portsmouth from a great day out in west wittering, was following both a cross channel ferry and the IOW ferry. Was entering on the tidal rush (on the ebb) so it's the normal lots of revs etc. Normal bun fight with the sailing boats and the motorboats going in and out with harbour patrol out forcing everyone over so they could almost touch each other when a sailing yacht decides to lose control (I hope it was not deliberate) and decides to turn 90 degrees straight into the path of the IOW ferry. Fair to say captain of ferry was not best pleased, and gives it rock all on his horn. The yacht ends up doing a 360 and manages to avoid a collision. Harbour patrol puts blue light on and speeds up to boat giving it some stick with lots of finger pointing. As I then sped past the boat he was not a happy bloke very red faced and I am sure thinking it was an accident. Has anyone else seen this type of incident at the mouth of portsmouth?

 

[l'escargot]

Why would someone "lose control" and turn in front of the ferry deliberately?

The usual problem I find going in or out of Pompey in the small boat channel against the tide is boats refusing to stay in single file and insisting on overtaking.

 

[lionelz]

Why would someone "lose control" and turn in front of the ferry deliberately?

The usual problem I find going in or out of Pompey in the small boat channel against the tide is boats refusing to stay in single file and insisting on overtaking.

Because the only other option is that it was done on purpose! And why would you turn towards a ferry at close quarter on purpose?

 

[[2068]]

I thought that anything with an engine had to use it between No 4 buoy and Ballast, so I'm not sure how they managed to lose control, although the swirly current at the entrance can try to spin you around.

 

[Whitelighter]

I was on a sailing cat motoring out and lost control.
Long story but the steering wheel literally came off and could it be put back on.

Fortunately we had twin engines so after a period of utter confusion we got it sorted plus it was quiet - but it does happen

 

[henryf]

The usual problem I find going in or out of Pompey in the small boat channel against the tide is boats refusing to stay in single file and insisting on overtaking.

There is no need or requirement to stay in single file. In fact to do so would ensure mayhem and boat collisions. The ebb out of Portsmouth particularly on a spring tide means some boats end up sitting in the entrance unable to beat the tide. Would you suggest everyone waits patiently behind them causing a bottleneck ?

It is perfectly acceptable to overtake whilst entering and leaving Portsmouth.

What is required is an understanding of basic rules of the road, ie. stay right. How many times have we been leaving only to find our path blocked by craft entering tight to the port hand piles and all the way out into the middle of the channel leaving no exit channel?

We have the ability to safely and carefully enter in a timely manner so as not to add to the confusion. As I came in yesterday there was a sailing boat entering right in the middle of the main channel. I presume the skipper was unaware of the small craft channel.

I saw the harbour Wombles towing a small sailing boat in because he wasn't making any headway, my offers to do similar for people have always been refused, even when they are going backwards! It must be something to do with pride.

I sometimes enter the harbour close to the port hand piles but only when there is heavy traffic and I can see there is no one leaving the harbour. Remember I can make my way swiftly in at all states of flow. I have a boat fit for purpose. Unfortunately some people who have boats unfit for purpose still try to enter at peak flow.

You wouldn't try to enter Bembridge at low water Springs so why try to enter Potsmouth at peak flow in a boat unable to cope?

Entering under sail without using or even running the engine so it's there in an emergency seems to be a badge of honour for some.

QHM, the commercial skippers and even the harbour Wombles bless them do a great job in Portsmouth. QHM in particular have the patience of a saint

Henry

 

[MapisM]

What is required is an understanding of basic rules of the road, ie. stay right.

Glad to hear that eventually, also in the UK, you came to your senses in this respect.

...sorry, couldn't resist...

 

[paul salliss]

I entered Portsmouth on the ebb, on a spring back in around Feb, it sure is a lot of water rushing towards you, would not surprise me at all if some boats ( mainly sailing boats ) really struggled

 

[MapisM]

I entered Portsmouth on the ebb, on a spring back in around Feb, it sure is a lot of water rushing towards you, would not surprise me at all if some boats ( mainly sailing boats ) really struggled

Just curious, is that water "rushing towards you" also flowing irregularly - i.e. with sudden direction changes?
Because if not (as I would guess), and it's just a constant stream, no matter how strong, I fail to see how it can affect maneuverability.
I mean, what's the difference between steering, for instance, at 6 knots STW with zero current (hence also 6 knots SOG) or 6 knots STW against a 7 knots current (hence actually moving backward at 1 knots SOG)?

 

[Sailorsam101]

To me this is simple and i see it almost every time i go out on the water.

The vast majority of skippers have no understanding of the impact that their actions have upon others.

So yachts sail into Portsmouth harbour..going slow..bobbing about all over the place on the tide...motorboats are all in such a rush to get into harbour that they power past the yachts making them loose control and their sails flap everywhere..making it even worse.

When i used to teach sailing i used to get really angry by the bullying motorboats that were always around on a nice day...."i've got big engines and more money than you so get out of my way"..i saw this a lot. Oh and the.."i'm a racing yacht so get out of my way as i have the right to get into the marina first because i have more money than you"

How many times do you see a skipper actually ever look behind them.

Basically people on boats are selfish and do their own things and stuff the rest...not all i know but the vast majority.

It will never change as it's just the same on the roads.

 

[MapisM]

So yachts sail into Portsmouth harbour..going slow..bobbing about all over the place on the tide...motorboats are all in such a rush to get into harbour that they power past the yachts making them loose control and their sails flap everywhere

Hang on, do you mean it's not mandatory to cruise under power in such conditions

 

[Wavey]

Hang on, do you mean it's not mandatory to cruise under power in such conditions

I stand to be corrected but I seem to remember it is mandatory to cruise under power. Only yachts without engines are supposed to enter or leave just under sail.

The problem with Portsmouth is that it's a very large harbour with a narrow entrance. Consequently the ebb and flow can be very fast and you do get some very odd currents.

 

[MapisM]

The problem with Portsmouth is that it's a very large harbour with a narrow entrance. Consequently the ebb and flow can be very fast and you do get some very odd currents.

Ok, that addresses my question in post #9.
This being the case, I can see why very slow vessels can struggle to keep their course.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Hang on, do you mean it's not mandatory to cruise under power in such conditions

It is mandatory:

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/qhm/portsmouth/regulations/small-boat-channel

Small Boat Channel

All craft fitted with engines, when navigating in the Approach Channel to Portsmouth Harbour,are to proceed under power between No 4 Bar Buoy and the Ballast Beacon.

 

[Blue Sunray]

There is no need or requirement to stay in single file. In fact to do so would ensure mayhem and boat collisions. The ebb out of Portsmouth particularly on a spring tide means some boats end up sitting in the entrance unable to beat the tide. Would you suggest everyone waits patiently behind them causing a bottleneck ?

It is perfectly acceptable to overtake whilst entering and leaving Portsmouth.

Whilst certainly not no overtaking per se, this does apply:

Small Boats should remain on the Starboard side of the Small Boat Channel and should adjust their speed to remain within the Small Boat Channel rather than overtake and be forced into the main channel.

 

[l'escargot]

There is no need or requirement to stay in single file. In fact to do so would ensure mayhem and boat collisions. The ebb out of Portsmouth particularly on a spring tide means some boats end up sitting in the entrance unable to beat the tide. Would you suggest everyone waits patiently behind them causing a bottleneck ?

It is perfectly acceptable to overtake whilst entering and leaving Portsmouth.

What is required is an understanding of basic rules of the road, ie. stay right. How many times have we been leaving only to find our path blocked by craft entering tight to the port hand piles and all the way out into the middle of the channel leaving no exit channel?

We have the ability to safely and carefully enter in a timely manner so as not to add to the confusion. As I came in yesterday there was a sailing boat entering right in the middle of the main channel. I presume the skipper was unaware of the small craft channel.

I saw the harbour Wombles towing a small sailing boat in because he wasn't making any headway, my offers to do similar for people have always been refused, even when they are going backwards! It must be something to do with pride.

I sometimes enter the harbour close to the port hand piles but only when there is heavy traffic and I can see there is no one leaving the harbour. Remember I can make my way swiftly in at all states of flow. I have a boat fit for purpose. Unfortunately some people who have boats unfit for purpose still try to enter at peak flow.

You wouldn't try to enter Bembridge at low water Springs so why try to enter Potsmouth at peak flow in a boat unable to cope?

Entering under sail without using or even running the engine so it's there in an emergency seems to be a badge of honour for some.

QHM, the commercial skippers and even the harbour Wombles bless them do a great job in Portsmouth. QHM in particular have the patience of a saint

Henry

I would suggest it is the boats trying to force past the slower boats that are more likely to cause mayhem and collisions and the rest of your post is just bluster and examples of other people not observing the rules to try and excuse it.

I wouldn't class going round a stationary boat as overtaking or defend people not operating within the rules. I have seen the Harbour Patrol enforcing single file traffic regularly and when did a boat being able to move "swiftly" become the definition of "fit for purpose"?

The rules for using the small boat channel are quite clear, they've been around quite a while now and it's about time people started to observe them.

 

[[2068]]

Typical 30ft+ sailing yachts with an inboard engine should be able to make reasonable progress against the current, and most motorboats should be able to maintain enough steerage at lower speeds such that there isn't a conflict.

But the "swirly" bit just off the entrance at springs can cause chaos: powering up to something like 8kts if safe to do so makes it a lot easier.
Also, in the case of a boat (of any variety) making hardly any progress: you do have to wonder whether choosing a different tidal state might not have been a better option all around.

 

[l'escargot]

Most typical 30ft+ sailing yachts with an inboard engine should be able to make reasonable progress against the current, and most motorboats should be able to maintain enough steerage at lower speeds such that there isn't a conflict.

But the "swirly" bit just off the entrance at springs can cause chaos: powering up to something like 8kts if safe to do so makes it a lot easier.
Also, a boat (of any variety) making hardly any progress: you do have to wonder whether choosing a different tidal state might not have been a better option all around.

I agree.

Giving other boats a bit a space and holding back where the back eddies are is entirely sensible as is avoiding the entrance at peak flows - you will either encounter struggling sailing boats or big power boats making anything up to 15 knots through the water with little regard for those inbetween...

 

[BruceK]

T
How many times do you see a skipper actually ever look behind them.

This is something that really bothers me about most sailing yacht skippers. It will take them an hour to get out the channel, it can take me 10-15 minutes. They never look behind, and two hoots on the horn to advise them I wish to overtake on the starboard never does illicit an appropriate response if any at all. So what to do? Sit behind them for an hour? Sorry, I pass as politely as possible, smile, wave, and make passage. No bullying, but no hanging about either.

 

[Sailorsam101]

Yes it is mandatory but that does not mean they do it.

Isn't there a 6 knot limit in cowes...every sunny Saturday i would need ten hands to count the number of motorboats who break this...and yes i drive a motorboat so i'm not picking at anybody.