Introduction and some beginner questions

[jamie N]

Welcome to the World of contradictory information, that should be very carefully dissected!
I'm a GK24 owner, and can assure you that they're wonderfully built and quite rewarding small weekend cruisers, with a bent towards being (slightly) performance orientated. They are an oldish design, but not outdated, and do seem to hold together quite well.
There's a Facebook page where it's easy to search for GK24 specific items, as well as getting all the gossip/news/tips which will help. One very good thing about them is that there are no surprises. As a boat to sail to the Med in though, it wouldn't be a choice of mine.
In your post you state: .......I'm "tall enough for the ride"...... Being tall enough in the GK24 isn't difficult as there's virtually NO headroom, which one can either work around & with, or not. I can, and do enjoy weeks at a time trips, but it tends to contain marina hopping with only a day gap at anchor. With a wife and a couple of kids, it'd become an endurance event I believe. However, as a boat to sail on and gain experience, go for it, as they're very forgiving, and give good feedback. They're easy around a marina by being extremely manoeuvrable going ahead or astern, and relatively light.
You'll know that they've a few variations on interior spec, and are either mast head or 3/4 rigged, and don't require a great deal of maintenance. My own has an outboard engine, which suits me, but the majority (I believe) are inboards, of which I've no knowledge as to whether the servicing is an utter pain through lack of access, or whatever.
I've no knowledge either of the GK29. The price of a GK24 is very reasonable I believe, provided that the usual caveat's of good sails, rigging, motor are met. There's very little wood on one, and mine came up nicely with a bit of effort, then deks olie 1 to finish it off. The interior on mine was OK, and I've not seen any reason to change it. They were designed to be competitive 1/4 tonners, but ended up as more of a club cruiser racer, which is fine as they are fun.
Good luck.

 

[Gixer]

I've never sailed on a GK but used to club race around the can's against a couple of GK24's. they were pretty quick and the guys always looked like they were having loads of fun. This was two or three guys thrashing around the cans for a couple of hours, not family sailing...
They seem to be really cheap boats now and good value for money if you can find a good one.
The GK29 would be the one for the family but its quite a big boat for a first boat in my view. They are pretty old also and will need maintenance which can be costly if you can't do things yourself.
Finding time to keep on top of boat work and a family can be hard, been there, got the teeshirt

 

[Mistroma]

Long term goal is to sail to the Med. I assume that gives you plenty of time to sail in the UK and buy something later that's suited to the Med.

You can get a lot of enjoyment from chartering and get the family interested. I'm assuming a long cruise would be post retirement.

We really enjoyed our trip to Greece and took about 6 years to get there and another 3 cruising around a lot of Greece.

Many people sailed past the Rias and missed great experiences there. Others went via the canals. However, it is now much more difficult to just cruise around Europe due to the 90 day rule.

An Irish passport is a godsend but doesn't get around all problems if only one family member has one.

I guess it's now simpler to buy in the Med. and spend a few years in one country before moving on. That means you have a base and can leave the boat for long periods to manage 90 day restrictions.

Choice of boat is slightly different for long cruise to Greece or island hopping there. You are living in the cockpit for most of the time in Greece. That's important but you still need something capable of getting there in comfort.

Buying locally can simplify that part.

 

[stranded]

“Many woman are ambivalent to boats at best…”

I suspect that many women are even more ambivalent to the monsters some manpets become when they are in charge of a boat.

You would do well as skipper to own everything that goes wrong - you chose the wrong crew, you didn’t ensure they had the knowledge to do what you expected, you didn’t explain yourself clearly enough… and reflect and learn the lessons. Shouting at your crew as you screw up yet another mooring manoeuvre is not cool!

But sailing can also be the absolute best fun you can have with your clothes on.

 

[KevinV]

I suspect that many women are even more ambivalent to the monsters some manpets become when they are in charge of a boat.

You would do well as skipper to own everything that goes wrong - you chose the wrong crew, you didn’t ensure they had the knowledge to do what you expected, you didn’t explain yourself clearly enough… and reflect and learn the lessons. Shouting at your crew as you screw up yet another mooring manoeuvre is not cool!

But sailing can also be the absolute best fun you can have with your clothes on.

Well said - sailing should be enjoyable (and safe), for everyone on board and there's no reason it can't be. If you reckon you're in charge then it's your job to ensure this

I have never seen a connection between sex and enjoyment or skill in sailing - only bullied partners of either sex being disgruntled with power-crazed "captains"

 

[doug748]

Fact is a lot of women don't like boats, outdoor sports, team games or roughing it. Good for them, you won't cajole or social engineer them into any other view and nor should they be pressed; that is their right and the OP would do well to take the fact into account before mentally signing them up to a family long term commitment.

 

[bitbaltic]

There’s nothing like a newbie thread on YBW to prove the point that advice is just a form of nostalgia. Didn’t take long for an aspiring yacht skipper to be told to get going on dinghies.

Success in this endeavour relies more on the family (missus) being happy with the space and comfort provided by the boat selected such that she buys into the long term vision from the start. To this end, the GK boats are not likely to fit the bill and asking her to kick off her sailing career in a dinghy as autumn comes in is even less a good idea. When sailing a cruising yacht, a dinghy background pays off into wind sense and controlling the boat confidently under sail. These skills take time to acquire however you develop them and you might as well acquire them whilst sailing a cruiser, which will also let you develop all the other cruiser-specific skills you will need (reefing, operating winches, manoeuvring under power, berthing, navigating, maintenance etc etc) which can’t be acquired in a dinghy ever. To begin sailing a cruiser you will be better off 12 months from now as a competent jack of all trades more than a superb downwind helm.

Re. RYA courses, where you start is probably more important than how you start in terms of building confidence. Don’t start in the Bristol Channel (ask me why). Start in tidal waters with less strong average winds- there’s a reason lots of boats are in the Solent. Competent Crew is a good way to build confidence because you will feel Day Skipper is a cinch after that. But if you do well during a comp crew course- and a lot of people doing less well than you on the boat will be going for a day skipper ticket- you may feel you’ve wasted some time/money. Maybe do the course together and put yourself through DS and the missus through CC at the same time. Might build more than double the buy in and confidence.

She’s likely to hope you then get a boat which has some of the qualities of the 37ft-ish beneteau/jenneau/bavaria you did the courses on. Again old racing designs not likely to fit the bill. Something French from the 1980s is likely to look and feel a lot more modern inside and stable topside to the missus within the sort of budget that the interest in the GK boats indicates. As a random suggestion something like the Dufour 2800 might be in play, but probably a similar boat with aft heads would be the thing to look for. Make sure she sees the boat and likes it (at least doesn’t hate it) before you buy it.

 

[Wansworth]

There’s nothing like a newbie thread on YBW to prove the point that advice is just a form of nostalgia. Didn’t take long for an aspiring yacht skipper to be told to get going on dinghies.

Success in this endeavour relies more on the family (missus) being happy with the space and comfort provided by the boat selected such that she buys into the long term vision from the start. To this end, the GK boats are not likely to fit the bill and asking her to kick off her sailing career in a dinghy as autumn comes in is even less a good idea. When sailing a cruising yacht, a dinghy background pays off into wind sense and controlling the boat confidently under sail. These skills take time to acquire however you develop them and you might as well acquire them whilst sailing a cruiser, which will also let you develop all the other cruiser-specific skills you will need (reefing, operating winches, manoeuvring under power, berthing, navigating, maintenance etc etc) which can’t be acquired in a dinghy ever. To begin sailing a cruiser you will be better off 12 months from now as a competent jack of all trades more than a superb downwind helm.

Re. RYA courses, where you start is probably more important than how you start in terms of building confidence. Don’t start in the Bristol Channel (ask me why). Start in tidal waters with less strong average winds- there’s a reason lots of boats are in the Solent. Competent Crew is a good way to build confidence because you will feel Day Skipper is a cinch after that. But if you do well during a comp crew course- and a lot of people doing less well than you on the boat will be going for a day skipper ticket- you may feel you’ve wasted some time/money. Maybe do the course together and put yourself through DS and the missus through CC at the same time. Might build more than double the buy in and confidence.

She’s likely to hope you then get a boat which has some of the qualities of the 37ft-ish beneteau/jenneau/bavaria you did the courses on. Again old racing designs not likely to fit the bill. Something French from the 1980s is likely to look and feel a lot more modern inside and stable topside to the missus within the sort of budget that the interest in the GK boats indicates. As a random suggestion something like the Dufour 2800 might be in play, but probably a similar boat with aft heads would be the thing to look for. Make sure she sees the boat and likes it (at least doesn’t hate it) before you buy it.

Man and boy,can’t beat Debutant for seakeeping

 

[jbweston]

The dinghy thing worked well if you were starting as a child. Skipper your own boat from the age of 7, learn the way the sails work, get punished for mistakes by capsizing (what fun when you're tipping your sister in the water), learn how to manage a cackhanded and obstreperous crew thrust upon you because 'he's about your age, you'll like him'. All under the watchful eye of a safety boat'

(As an aside, we often didn't have a safety boat because our teacher couldn't find the key or couldn't start the Seagull, and we sailed on a gravel pit up until Christmas with no wetsuit, drysuit or any-kind-of-suit, just a pair of jeans and two layers of woolly jumper. The safety briefing was ' Don't end up in the water because you'll only last minutes at this time of year'. 'Yes, Sir. We'll be careful'. That horrifies me now. But it was better than having to play rugby - much better.)

Most younger cruising sailors (by which I mean younger than me which isn't hard) aren't kids. They're in busy jobs with limited holidays. So better to confront a cruising yacht head on from the start rather than trying to creep up on it by a roundabout route like a big cat stalking a wary antelope. By all means do some racing as well to learn more about sail trim if you don't mind the disadvantages of being crew in that environment.

If you have the time and inclination, dinghy sailing can be fun. But to suggest it's the best way to approach yacht cruising is a bit like telling a 30 year old who wants to learn to drive a car that it's better to start with a pushbike and progress from there. Good idea if the beginner is 10. Not necessary if he's 30.

That's just my opinion. Other opinions are available.

 

[KompetentKrew]

Join www.PhoenixYachtClub.co.uk if you're in the south east. Good club based training and cheap RYA qualifications.

 

[bitbaltic]

The forum is certainly changing as the majority now seem to be in favour of starting cruising sailing by starting sailing on a cruiser. A decade ago the majority considered this a perversion tantamount to sailing heresy.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

... and you don't need to race either as a fast track to developing sailing skills.

 

[Laser310]

The OP describes participating in a race and then says; "the bug bit me hard".

He then says his goal is to cruise.

So, assuming that the "bug" is sailing generally, and not sailboat _racing_.., then he could reasonably skip dinghy sailing.

If, on the other hand, he does want to race.., , and wants to be successful.., there is no question that it is better to start in dinghies.

Beyond that, there is also a personality (for lack of a better word) question. If the OP is the type of person who likes to be technically good at things, then dinghy sailing is a big help. If you want to get really good at the _sailing_ part of sailing.., that is to be a good sailor in the way that Max Verstappen is a good driver.., then you want to spend a lot of time racing dinghies.

If, on the other hand, sailing the boat is mostly just a fun way to get to interesting cruising destinations.., and while you want to be safe and competent.., you also don't care about being a virtuoso.., then skip the dinghies.

 

[johnalison]

The OP describes participating in a race and then says; "the bug bit me hard".

He then says his goal is to cruise.

So, assuming that the "bug" is sailing generally, and not sailboat _racing_.., then he could reasonably skip dinghy sailing.

If, on the other hand, he does want to race.., , and wants to be successful.., there is no question that it is better to start in dinghies.

Beyond that, there is also a personality (for lack of a better word) question. If the OP is the type of person who likes to be technically good at things, then dinghy sailing is a big help. If you want to get really good at the _sailing_ part of sailing.., that is to be a good sailor in the way that Max Verstappen is a good driver.., then you want to spend a lot of time racing dinghies.

If, on the other hand, sailing the boat is mostly just a fun way to get to interesting cruising destinations.., and while you want to be safe and competent.., you also don't care about being a virtuoso.., then skip the dinghies.

You may have a point there. There are people I know for whom an ideal passage is one where the autopilot is engaged at the start and sooner or later they get somewhere. For myself, there is a special pleasure in getting somewhere interesting, but the actual sailing bit is the chief part of the experience, and it is the physicality of the process that thrills me.

I came from the ‘messing about in boats’ school of sailing and don’t regret this one bit. Instruction has its place, and is more or less essential for VHF. As far as I can see, it depends on your resources, and how much of your youth you can afford to waste. Cruiser instruction works for many, but it is partly a matter of economics. Dinghies are massively cheaper, and you will learn more in an hour or two in a dinghy about boat handling than in a week in a cruiser.

Many of us suffer from skipperitis, and this can put a damper on families enjoyment of boating, and it is only my own family’s forbearance that means that we are still friends some fifty odd years later that when our cruising began.

 

[Laser310]

There are people I know for whom an ideal passage is one where the autopilot is engaged at the start and sooner or later they get somewhere. For myself, there is a special pleasure in getting somewhere interesting, but the actual sailing bit is the chief part of the experience, and it is the physicality of the process that thrills me.

My wife likens me to a squirrel when i am on the boat; continuously running around adjusting anything that can be adjusted...

 

[johnalison]

My wife likens me to a squirrel when i am on the boat; continuously running around adjusting anything that can be adjusted...

I’m a bit the same. It only works when I have the helm though. Other than obvious misadjustments, if someone else is helming I don’t have the feel to know what is going on.

 

[[70521]]

New user here and thought I'd introduce myself!

Hello and Welcome

A few thoughts:

I am in the you don't need to learn to sail in a dinghy, unless you like having a wet bum, and you don't need to race unless you like being stressed out by a skipper who shouts all the time just to get an extra 0.0001 of a knot, school of learning to sail.

Sailing is an incredible way of life there is so much to learn.

Find a good club that welcomes the family and they can explore the sailing world. Be prepared for family members to say this is not for me or I prefer getting my bum wet, or I liked being shouted at by a red faced man who looks like he is about to have a myocardial infarction as I can have a hot shower and a drink in the bar after 2 hours 30 mins. Long ocean passages are not for everybody - especially if they have inspected their last two meals and the weather is not going to get any better for 48 hours.

Crew on as many boats as you can, look at what other people do on boats. You will feel as safe as houses with some and others you will want to step off as soon as you can - see what style of skippering works for you, e.g. 'trad nav' as I now hear chartwork called or electronic nav. I have a few skippers, usually ex-racers, that I have only sailed with once.

Take time finding a boat, your needs and tastes will change.

Don't make sailing to the Med the be all and end all, after all there are significant issues with 'stuff' now we live in a post 2016 parallel universe, enjoy the journey and let the journey lead you somewhere - it might be different to where you currently want to go.

Don't stop learning, after sailing from the age of three I finally understand celestial navigation and at the age of 63 and it has opened up a whole new universe of knowledge.

As you say you work for Trumpton, enjoy the banter and black humour.

 

[jamie N]

My wife likens me to a squirrel when i am on the boat; continuously running around adjusting anything that can be adjusted...

I'm reminded of a friend of mine who was a very senior engineer, in a very large helicopter company. I asked him "What's the one thing that you'd like to add to a helicopter?".
He replied "The fierce dog. The dog sits between the pilots and if it sees a hand move towards adjusting something/anything, then it'd firstly growl as a warning. If the warning wasn't heeded, then that's when the 2nd pilot would've taken over as the injured pilot fixes a plaster on his wound."

 

[Wansworth]

I have a Swiss friend who sailed rtw in a nic 32…….butfora jolly across the ria he takes all the fun out of it by constant course adjustments and main and jib sheet fiddling ……Iguess I can learn from him but not particularly bothered as long as the sails Dont flap and we go inthe right direction

 

[Concerto]

Embie, welcome to the forum.

When I started sailing in the 1960's, it was on a 30ft yacht my parents had bought brand new. We knew very little but in the first year of ownership we sailed from the Medway to Torquay and back. We learned fast from our mistakes. The first word of advice is find out if all the family do not suffer from motion sickness as this may limit you having family cruising.

A few years later my brother and I were constantly ribbed by other youngsters that we did armchair sailing. We decided to build a Mirror dinghy and join them. The first race we came second and then virtually never lost a race. Moral is that dinghy sailing does not teach you how to sail well as cruising taught us how to sail effectively cross tide rather than sailing the longer arc.

My advice would be to join a club and start sailing on other peoples boats. However this will not be possible to expect someone to take the whole family. So you need to do this to get more experience on the water to build your confidence. Maybe take a charter holiday to confirm the family are happy sailing. Then go for boat ownership. Getting a few RYA qualifications might help but are not essential.

As to sailing with a family, then you will need a boat that has sufficient accommodation. A GK24 is far too small and cramped to cruise in. In the past we built a Starlight 30, which was a development of the GK29 with better accommodation. A production version was produced later. Without knowing your proposed budget and where you live it is difficult to advise further.

You may find the link in my signature useful as it includes all my online information on working on a boat and videos of where I have sailed. I should mention I now sail singlehanded as my wife suffers badly from motion sickness.