Internet Access

[B42]

Has anybody installed the Digital Yacht 4G Connect? If so, does it give you good access to the web and a reliaable wi-fi network on your boat?
Also, if somebody has later installed the Pro upgrade of two antennae, did it make a noticeable difference? Most of our cruising is in the Solent, across the channel and around the coastal areas of the UK and continental Europe.
The most important thing for me is internet access for video calls and email etc so that I can work from anywhere. I find that Marina wifi is very patchy and drops in and out.

I am making a decision on the purchase and being encouraged to go for the Pro set up by the manufacturer but the dealer says try the basic first and upgrade if need be

 

[jrudge]

Just buy a mifi. They are cheap and reliable.

 

[Hurricane]

Why Digital Yacht?
Why not just a good 4G router?
Something like this:-
D-Link DWR-921 4G LTE Router 4G LTE Mobile Broadband 790069393532 | eBay
Twin antenna question - maybe an omni directional antenna might be better.
Something like this:-
Omni Directional 4G 3G LTE MIMO Outdoor External Antenna Huawei B535 Three SMA | eBay
Thats the combination that I've been using for a couple of years now.
The system was working 40 miles from the shore at the end of last year but realistically that kit should be good for 20 miles.
The Digital Yacht kit is robust but expensive.
I just fit mine in a cupboard out of sight.
You may need an inverter or a voltage stabiliser.
For this application, I use a £70 Victron inverter - works fine.

I leave mine on all the time but on shore power when I'm away from the boat.

 

[5teve]

I have an Asus router (12v input took some finding) and a USB modem plugged in. Wifi and wired LAN through the boat and plenty of router features.. works pretty well tbh

Depending on your needs a midi would be 100% good too

Steve

 

[Hurricane]

Just buy a mifi. They are cheap and reliable.

Yes - MiFis are good.
Not quite as good on range as a dedicated Router with MIMO (multi antennas)
The problem that I find with MiFis is that, being battery powered, they really need to be connected to power all the time.
So, why not use a dedicated Router instead?

 

[danvan]

I've spent ages pondering wifi/4g on boats and have had all manner of systems over the years.

I agree with others that a 4g system is the easiest way of getting internet to a boat and with the fastest speeds. However the main limitation is how much data you can get hold of, especially in Europe where my boat is. Most UK SIM cards have a fair use policy abroad which is really annoying and even if you have an unlimited data package in the UK, most limit you to 10-20gb per month when travelling. If you have 2 kids, that's a couple of evening's worth of Netflix!! I have an unlimited data card with SFR in France which costs eu70 per months which solves that problem, but I think you can get 100gb for a lot less now.

Mifi is the easiest route to 4g, but I had a proper decent router with good aerials which worked best, especially if you start linking lots of devices, such as TVs to it. However the catch there is that you need 240v, so it only works with shore power / generator / inverter. If one of your kids is playing an online game and you switch power source, then the internet goes down (even just for a few minutes) and they lose the game! Of course many would say that kids shouldn't be playing games on a boat!!

I like having Wifi as a backup. I used to have a Digital Yacht WL510 wifi system a few years ago, but it was terrible. Despite what the manufacturer said, it didn't cope with marina captive portals well and you could spend ages configuring the thing. A standard router was easier.

But all the above relies on being close to shore, or for wifi close to a marina access point. So I agree with other members who say a big external aerial is the way forward, either connecting to a dedicated marine system or just to a household router. I can't vouch for this yet as I haven't personally tried it, but I am thinking about buying a system from Locomarine called "yacht router". It's not cheap, but looks like it could handle everything. Be great to hear if anyone else has one of these?

 

[Sticky Fingers]

...
Why not just a good 4G router? Something like this:-
D-Link DWR-921 4G LTE Router 4G LTE Mobile Broadband 790069393532 | eBay
Twin antenna question - maybe an omni directional antenna might be better. Something like this:-
Omni Directional 4G 3G LTE MIMO Outdoor External Antenna Huawei B535 Three SMA | eBay
...

This is interesting, presume you remove the stub antennae from the router and connect to the two connections on the Omni?

 

[Hurricane]

This is interesting, presume you remove the stub antennae from the router and connect to the two connections on the Omni?

Yes but you have be sure that the antenna connections that you connect to are used for the 4G and not the internal WiFi that these router also support.

BTW
If you buy a 4G SIM package from the UK (say a Vodafone shop in the high street), when you connect from outside the UK, you still get a UK IP address.
This means that BBCiPlayer etc works outside the UK just as it does inside the UK.
But, I agree, the amount of data can be a problem.
My Vodafone package is 50Gb per month and costs me about £22 per month.
I also have Sat domes on the boat so I tend to watch Sky News over the satellite for the news and keep the data for other stuff.
And 50Gb per month is OK for me.
But I don't have kids wanting to play games etc - I had all that a few years ago - they are all grown up now.

 

[jrudge]

Yes - MiFis are good.
Not quite as good on range as a dedicated Router with MIMO (multi antennas)
The problem that I find with MiFis is that, being battery powered, they really need to be connected to power all the time.
So, why not use a dedicated Router instead?

mine is connected to the usb sockets on the boat.
Always on and works anywhere on the boat.

 

[Forty_Two]

I use a Huawei B315 4G router powered from a buck/boost converter (9 - 20v to 12v from Ebay) with a MIMO aerial on my mast.

Totally great, never switched it off in three years. Rebooted once after an update. Has four ethernet ports like most home routers, I have it hard wired to my nav PC (Rpi4 running OpenPlotter2 with Ocpn 5), my boat monitoring system(Rpi3) & my W7 PC.

Tablets, phones etc use the Wifi. As boat is in France I use a Free.fr SIM, 100GB/mth €19.99

Just works, no hassle, never need to think about it.

 

[Hurricane]

mine is connected to the usb sockets on the boat.
Always on and works anywhere on the boat.

Yep, as I said, that will work fine but why not have something a bit better.
You have to leave the MiFi plugged in so why not have a proper 4G router with better performance.
Also gives you a proper LAN on the boat - WiFi LAN and wired LAN - lots of stuff can then link in - PCs, IP cameras etc - "the world is then your lobster"

 

[Hurricane]

I use a Huawei B315 4G router powered from a buck/boost converter (9 - 20v to 12v from Ebay) with a MIMO aerial on my mast.

Totally great, never switched it off in three years. Rebooted once after an update. Has four ethernet ports like most home routers, I have it hard wired to my nav PC (Rpi4 running OpenPlotter2 with Ocpn 5), my boat monitoring system(Rpi3) & my W7 PC.

Tablets, phones etc use the Wifi. As boat is in France I use a Free.fr SIM, 100GB/mth €19.99

Just works, no hassle, never need to think about it.

I like that combination but it is a bit "turnkey" for me.
OpenPlotter tries to put everything into one box consequently making it complicated and providing stuff that you don't actually need.
The RPi is great and I have played with that concept but my thoughts are that if you are going to install a system like that, the extra few quid for a proper PC makes all the difference in performance.
I don't bother with Windows either - my ships PC runs Linux and I have carefully selected what I need to run on it.
Kplex for example is installed on its own to multiplex all the NMEA data without the complexity of Signal K which I can't see the point of.

Anyway, back to the OP's question.
IMHO, he should install a conventional 4G router that gives him internet but more importantly, it would provide him a proper ship's LAN.
Lots of things can then be added as required - Audio/Music systems - TV set top boxes - Navigation Systems - IP Cameras etc ........

 

[affinite]

I use a Huawei B315 4G router powered from a buck/boost converter (9 - 20v to 12v from Ebay) with a MIMO aerial on my mast.

Totally great, never switched it off in three years. Rebooted once after an update. Has four ethernet ports like most home routers, I have it hard wired to my nav PC (Rpi4 running OpenPlotter2 with Ocpn 5), my boat monitoring system(Rpi3) & my W7 PC.

Tablets, phones etc use the Wifi. As boat is in France I use a Free.fr SIM, 100GB/mth €19.99

Just works, no hassle, never need to think about it.

42
Hope you dont mind me jumping in mid-thread with a quick question regarding your specific setup ...
I also run Openplotter on a Rpi with a number of ESP8266 devices monitoring tanks, temperatures etc.
Im looking for a device to enable me to keep the boat connected to the Internet for up to 9 months unattended (Also in Greece) so that I can remotely monitor the boat systems via SignalK & MQTT when I'm away.
Your setup sounds perfect for that but could you just clarify one thing
I assume that the router acts as a DHCP server to enable connected devices to connect to the internet but when on board I want to use the WiFi network created buy the router to allow my devices to communicate locally with each other without trying to go out to the internet. Is that possible ? Can you turn off the 4G connection ?
Thanks

 

[Forty_Two]

42
Hope you dont mind me jumping in mid-thread with a quick question regarding your specific setup ...
I also run Openplotter on a Rpi with a number of ESP8266 devices monitoring tanks, temperatures etc.
Im looking for a device to enable me to keep the boat connected to the Internet for up to 9 months unattended (Also in Greece) so that I can remotely monitor the boat systems via SignalK & MQTT when I'm away.
Your setup sounds perfect for that but could you just clarify one thing
I assume that the router acts as a DHCP server to enable connected devices to connect to the internet but when on board I want to use the WiFi network created buy the router to allow my devices to communicate locally with each other without trying to go out to the internet. Is that possible ? Can you turn off the 4G connection ?
Thanks

Yes it acts as a DHCP sever for the local network & as usual you specify the range available.Yes you can turn the 4G connection off if not needed but that obviously applies to all devices on the network.

 

[Hurricane]

42
Hope you dont mind me jumping in mid-thread with a quick question regarding your specific setup ...
I also run Openplotter on a Rpi with a number of ESP8266 devices monitoring tanks, temperatures etc.
Im looking for a device to enable me to keep the boat connected to the Internet for up to 9 months unattended (Also in Greece) so that I can remotely monitor the boat systems via SignalK & MQTT when I'm away.
Your setup sounds perfect for that but could you just clarify one thing
I assume that the router acts as a DHCP server to enable connected devices to connect to the internet but when on board I want to use the WiFi network created buy the router to allow my devices to communicate locally with each other without trying to go out to the internet. Is that possible ? Can you turn off the 4G connection ?
Thanks

I thought that Signal K was all about connecting across networks (through NAT firewalls etc)

But if you are looking to remotely connect to the boat whilst away, my system might be of interest.
I've been using it for 10 years but now that 4G is here, it has really come into its own and works well.
Essentially, I have a second router downstream of the main internet router.
That second router runs DD-WRT with an OpenVPN connection to a similar (downstream) router at my home.
The two routers "tunnel" through the internet to connect to each other - using SSL so it is as secure as you can get.
The end result is that the boat is on the same LAN as my home systems.
The ship's PC connects to my home server etc
So, I can connect to any of my devices as though they were local.
I also use a VPN app on my phone that connects to the same routers/network.
Would that help connecting to Signal K?

As I say, I've never seen the point of Signal K but I'm often wrong - maybe you can suggest some of Signal K's benefits.

 

[Forty_Two]

I thought that Signal K was all about connecting across networks (through NAT firewalls etc)

But if you are looking to remotely connect to the boat whilst away, my system might be of interest.
I've been using it for 10 years but now that 4G is here, it has really come into its own and works well.
Essentially, I have a second router downstream of the main internet router.
That second router runs DD-WRT with an OpenVPN connection to a similar (downstream) router at my home.
The two routers "tunnel" through the internet to connect to each other - using SSL so it is as secure as you can get.
The end result is that the boat is on the same LAN as my home systems.
The ship's PC connects to my home server etc
So, I can connect to any of my devices as though they were local.
I also use a VPN app on my phone that connects to the same routers/network.
Would that help connecting to Signal K?

As I say, I've never seen the point of Signal K but I'm often wrong - maybe you can suggest some of Signal K's benefits.

I use OpenVPN to connect to my home NAS as needed but your setup sounds elegant, presumably the vpn auto connects if the main router twitches?

PS Still got my E38 V8, 21 years now 158k, still love it.

 

[Hurricane]

I use OpenVPN to connect to my home NAS as needed but your setup sounds elegant, presumably the vpn auto connects if the main router twitches?

PS Still got my E38 V8, 21 years now 158k, still love it.

In the early days, the DD-WRT OpenVPN software in the remote router needed to be restarted after some glitches but was usable when we were out there.
But the current DD-WRT software just works.
Once set up you can switch the routers on/off or connect/disconnect from the internet and they reconnect as/when they can.
It works really well now.
I have a cheap IP Pan and Tilt Camera that I leave on the boat for security.
The camera has its own web server so, at home, I simply point my browser to an internal LAN IP address and instantly connect t the IP camera on the boat.

Your E38 - I'm jealous.
I have had a few but my last one (4 litre V8 petrol) finally fell apart after 13 years.
Since then I have been driving an F01 which is very nice but is costing much more to keep going.
That last E38 was the best car I have ever owned.

 

[Mikehp0]

I thoroughly recommend this £150 Teltonika router.

Teltonika RUT950 4G LTE WLAN Router

It has dual 4G Sims, 4 Ethernet ports and WiFi bridge functionality. In a marina it uses the WiFi bridge capability to connect to marina WiFi then swaps to the preferred 4G SIM on departure or if the marina WiFi fails. If preferred 4G fails it uses the 2nd 4G connection. It is easy to setup and very reliable. 4Gon sell it with 2xWiFi and 2x4G rubber antennae but both can be substituted for good external ones. I have a 4G MIMO antenna on the coach roof but no room for a WiFi one so just use the rubber ones. Subjective testing on cross channel trips says it hangs onto usable 4G for miles after my mobile phone on the same network has given up. if you prise the waterproof lid off a well known marine focused £1000+ solution you will find one of these inside - that’s how I found it. Lots of nice configurable VPN, NAT and other stuff with initials to keep the geeks happy too. Manuals are available via my link. Bound to be a 5G version in due course...

 

[TwoHooter]

I thoroughly recommend this £150 Teltonika router.
Teltonika RUT950 4G LTE WLAN Router

Another vote for the Teltonika RUT950 here. Ours was installed by forumite Matt Riches in winter 2017 and has never missed a beat. It is a beautiful bit of kit (and beautifully installed!). The 955 has even better features including geofencing but so far the 950 has done all we need. I had a problem early on and Teltonika were marvellous - turned out it was nothing to do with their product but the after-sales service was good.

Matt has just introduced me to these external antenna boxes - very tempted to fit one.

Mike - private VPNs - on your system for creating a VPN tunnel, is this "always on", by which I mean does the on-board router keep connected to the cell network continuously to keep the tunnel open? If so does it consume data constantly? Or does it only consume data when you connect to the boat remotely? As usual I sort of half understand this stuff which is sometimes worse then not understanding it at all.

 

[danvan]

This RUT955 and QUspot looks excellent and a fraction of the price of dedicated yacht systems like Digitalyacht etc.

One question if I may Mikehp0 & TwhoHooter - when you used the wifi part as opposed to 4g, did the unit handle captive portals as found in most marinas? Thanks.