Intermittent engine start issue - recent Volvo D2-50

[dunedin]

Recently had an intermittent engine start issue - thought might be user error but became a consistent issue this morning. Unfortunately when anchored in tight bay close to a rock, and miles from anybody or any telephone signal! Eventually managed to start and get to a signal, but not sure what solutions could be ...

With the Volvo we press one button to put on engine, and engine hours appears on dial. All good so far. The occasionally when we press start, rather than starting it just does nothing and screen goes blank.
If it works the engine cranks fast and starts easily. If it doesn't we are stuffed.

Any thoughts from the panel?

Been away from shore power for a while, but engine battery volts looked fine - 12.8v before load
Instantaneously drops to circa 11v as press starter (when working), lowest saw 11.7v

It was suggested a switch to prevent starting in gear could have gone faulty - but checked and we don't have this (and can start in gear if stupid enough)

Sod's law now got to a safe pontoon it is working 100% of time - but nothing changed so not fixed

Been round checking tightness of connections on battery etc

Any thoughts?
And how can one get going in emergency if it happens again in a remote place (9 out of 10 places we have been are anchor away from any support - often unpopulated)

 

[pvb]

How recent is it? Still under the 2 year warranty?

 

[dunedin]

How recent is it? Still under the 2 year warranty?

Afraid not - 5 years but only 200 hours. And no Volvo engine dealers anywhere near - have spoken to one in Clyde but limited what can be deduced remotely

 

[RichardS]

The problem sounds like a bad connection somewhere, possibly on the back of the ignition switch or the wires going to it.

With regards to getting going in an emergency, I always carry a pair of car jump leads and so I could use those to supply power directly to the starter solenoid if necessary and if a screwdriver across the solenoid connections to the ignition switch doesn't work.

Richard

 

[pvb]

The problem sounds like a bad connection somewhere, possibly on the back of the ignition switch or the wires going to it.

If only it were that simple! The OP's engine has the Volvo Penta EVC system with an electronic push-button panel. Like today's cars, diagnosis of faults is no longer a straightforward job. Checking for bad connections generally is about the only thing a DIY owner can do - after that, it's a case of getting a "proper man" in!

 

[John 32i]

Maybe worth checking the fuse.
I had a similar problem a couple of years back -eventually traded to a dodgy fuse... Think on yours it is a plastic affair 2 inches square and about £15 ...??!

 

[temptress]

OK sounds like the solenoid is not engaging properly. The starter motor pulls a lot of current so to enable this the ignition switch engages a solenoid to connect the starter motor to the batteries (the current is way to high to use a relay). IF the voltage from the ignition is a bit down and/or the connection to the solenoid from the ignition switch is loose/dirty/corroded then you get the symptoms you describe (see Nigel Callders boat owner electrical manual for a detailed description)

TO fix remake the connection first - this should solve the problem - if not you can wire up a relay from the ignition to add more power but that is beyond the scope of this reply.

There should be 3 (maybe 4) wires on the solenoid - 2 BIG thick ones connected to the battery -be careful with these the loads here can do you serious harm! Additionally there is a Positive cable coming from the ignition circuit - this is probably the culprit, Additionally there may be a ground wire for the solenoid but usually they are grounded through the BIG wire. Take off the ignition positive clean and remake - should get you through the rest of the season.

 

[pvb]

OK sounds like the solenoid is not engaging properly. The starter motor pulls a lot of current so to enable this the ignition switch engages a solenoid to connect the starter motor to the batteries (the current is way to high to use a relay). IF the voltage from the ignition is a bit down and/or the connection to the solenoid from the ignition switch is loose/dirty/corroded then you get the symptoms you describe (see Nigel Callders boat owner electrical manual for a detailed description)

TO fix remake the connection first - this should solve the problem - if not you can wire up a relay from the ignition to add more power but that is beyond the scope of this reply.

There should be 3 (maybe 4) wires on the solenoid - 2 BIG thick ones connected to the battery -be careful with these the loads here can do you serious harm! Additionally there is a Positive cable coming from the ignition circuit - this is probably the culprit, Additionally there may be a ground wire for the solenoid but usually they are grounded through the BIG wire. Take off the ignition positive clean and remake - should get you through the rest of the season.

Your diagnosis doesn't fit with the OP's description of the symptoms - "With the Volvo we press one button to put on engine, and engine hours appears on dial. All good so far. The occasionally when we press start, rather than starting it just does nothing and screen goes blank. If it works the engine cranks fast and starts easily. If it doesn't we are stuffed."

If it was as simple as a bad connection on the solenoid, why would the screen go blank?

 

[temptress]

Your diagnosis doesn't fit with the OP's description of the symptoms - "With the Volvo we press one button to put on engine, and engine hours appears on dial. All good so far. The occasionally when we press start, rather than starting it just does nothing and screen goes blank. If it works the engine cranks fast and starts easily. If it doesn't we are stuffed."

If it was as simple as a bad connection on the solenoid, why would the screen go blank?

It will go blank because the voltage is being reduced below the tolerance of the screen but the bad connect will stop the solenoid working properly. These are classic symptoms of the problem I described. Especially the it works for a bit 100 OK then nothing......then OK. But I accept it could be something else entirely-worth checking and easy to check.

 

[pvb]

It will go blank because the voltage is being reduced below the tolerance of the screen but the bad connect will stop the solenoid working properly. These are classic symptoms of the problem I described. Especially the it works for a bit 100 OK then nothing......then OK

Ah, right. So there's a bad connection stopping the solenoid working. Why is the voltage reduced?

 

[dunedin]

Thanks all for the helpful suggestions

yes it is the electronic EVC control

the connections I have found so far all seem clean and good - but that probably just means that I have not yet found the right one

apologies for the dumb question (I am not a mechanic and access to the port side, where the starter is located, is very poor - plus the volvo owner manual gives no clues) ....
Where is the solenoid - is it integral to the starter motor (as that is where the heavy cable run seems to go)?

 

[VicS]

Thanks all for the helpful suggestions

yes it is the electronic EVC control

the connections I have found so far all seem clean and good - but that probably just means that I have not yet found the right one

apologies for the dumb question (I am not a mechanic and access to the port side, where the starter is located, is very poor - plus the volvo owner manual gives no clues) ....
Where is the solenoid - is it integral to the starter motor (as that is where the heavy cable run seems to go)?

Puzzled because I cannot find any reference to a "D2-50" anywhere on VP's website

However I have found the Electrical section of the service manual on line if its trouble shooting section is any use to you for , among others, D2-40, D2-55 and D2-75.

A poor connection somewhere is almost certainly the cause of the trouble or possibly the on/off button itself on the button panel.

It might be possible to start the engine by touching a direct connection between the battery +ve lead on the starter solenoid ( big red wires) and the spade terminal with the red/yellow wire on it but you wont have energised the glow plugs ! I think I 'd have to be desperate to try it esp if access is poor. ( The solenoid is the cylindrical lump on the side of the starter motor with all the wires connected to it)
You may not have the alarms and instruments working on the EVC panel

Not sure how you'd stop it though unless the stop button then decides to work. Directly energise the stop solenoid maybe or turn off the fuel at the tank outlet.


Link to manual for what its worth http://www.plaisance-pratique.com/IMG/pdf/MID.pdf I guess if you dont recognise the stater solenoid though the manual will mean even less to you than it does to me!

 

[Tammany]

Intermittent faults do tends to suggest a bad connection or dry solder joint inside the control panel itself. I'd go with the latter due to screen blanking out. Is their any noise at all when it fails? Relay/solenoid clicks etc? Or just complete nothing. That's the trouble with newer engines, diagnostics becomes more about electronics.

 

[dunedin]

So a brief update on this. I checked through all the connections that I could find. And a local marine engineer helpfully came over to have a look and rechecked a few things as well. Nothing really found - though i tightened the engine battery bolt perhaps half a turn, suspect that didn't impact the connection.
Engineer looked at the starter solenoid connections (I couldn't reach them !), though he didn't remove or clean any connections there.
And re Tammany's post above, no when it doesn't work there is no noise.

Engineer thought it was probably low battery voltage - based upon the instantaneous drops to 10.7 / 11.2 etc when pressing the button (we had been "off grid" for two weeks, though was motoring for perhaps an hour the night before the main engine start issue).
He recommended
(a) doing a full overnight "conditioning charge" on the battery - which we were able to do; and
(b) consider replacing the crank battery as a precaution - as now 5 years old.

So following the overnight charge the problem didn't recur in the next 4-5 days of use - but as an intermittent, this doesn't prove that anything is actually solved.
And as we are cruising well away from luxuries like "SeaStart" - or indeed often any other boats - I have bitten the bullet and bought a new battery (as web searches suggested 3-5 years a typical life for AGM battery, so will be needed at some stage anyway).
Finally I bought some excellent 6m long and high capacity jump leads (amazon £20) which would allow boosting from the service batteries.

Interestingly, a Volvo specialist the local engineer spoke to said that he had fitted an "emergency start button", bypassing the EVC control box on a couple of boats. Not something I could do remotely, but worth considering as a winter upgrade?

Not convinced got to the bottom of this - but hopefully a few more milli-volts might avoid a reccurrance
(And a related post to follow)

 

[ex-Gladys]

Interesting comment on AGM's, I know I'm only a weekend and holiday sailor, but my engine start was replaced this winter, and appears to have been pre 2000 (it was an Odyssey). My set of 3house batteries lasted for 10 years, Squadron AGM's

 

[sailorman]

So a brief update on this. I checked through all the connections that I could find. And a local marine engineer helpfully came over to have a look and rechecked a few things as well. Nothing really found - though i tightened the engine battery bolt perhaps half a turn, suspect that didn't impact the connection.
Engineer looked at the starter solenoid connections (I couldn't reach them !), though he didn't remove or clean any connections there.
And re Tammany's post above, no when it doesn't work there is no noise.

Engineer thought it was probably low battery voltage - based upon the instantaneous drops to 10.7 / 11.2 etc when pressing the button (we had been "off grid" for two weeks, though was motoring for perhaps an hour the night before the main engine start issue).
He recommended
(a) doing a full overnight "conditioning charge" on the battery - which we were able to do; and
(b) consider replacing the crank battery as a precaution - as now 5 years old.

So following the overnight charge the problem didn't recur in the next 4-5 days of use - but as an intermittent, this doesn't prove that anything is actually solved.
And as we are cruising well away from luxuries like "SeaStart" - or indeed often any other boats - I have bitten the bullet and bought a new battery (as web searches suggested 3-5 years a typical life for AGM battery, so will be needed at some stage anyway).
Finally I bought some excellent 6m long and high capacity jump leads (amazon £20) which would allow boosting from the service batteries.

Interestingly, a Volvo specialist the local engineer spoke to said that he had fitted an "emergency start button", bypassing the EVC control box on a couple of boats. Not something I could do remotely, but worth considering as a winter upgrade?

Not convinced got to the bottom of this - but hopefully a few more milli-volts might avoid a reccurrance
(And a related post to follow)

Have you thought of fitting an Adverc
http://www.adverc.co.uk/products/1

 

[pvb]

Have you thought of fitting an Adverc
http://www.adverc.co.uk/products/1

Not necessary. He has a modern engine, big alternator, low-loss splitter, plus solar charging.

 

[Tranona]

Not necessary. He has a modern engine, big alternator, low-loss splitter, plus solar charging.

Pity you posted this, as I was waiting for sailorman to explain how that would solve the problem.

 

[Momac]

I had a similar issue - not the same engine at all but it was Volvo Penta.
did various things at a cost and each time it seemed to fix it but the fault quickly returned.
In the end it was a loose electrical connection onto the engine start relay which was under a black plastic cover on the engine. Cleaned and pinched up the connector and problem solved. .

 

[richardbrennan]

I have a D1-30 and had similar problems when the engine was fitted. The local Volvo agent that fitted it tried all sorts of solutions, including a new starter motor, but all to no avail. Finally I fitted new cables of a considerably increased size and the problem went away. It does seem that these new D series engines are particularly fussy about the voltage they are getting and will abandon the start cycle if they think the voltage is too low for a successful start.