Integrated Electronics

[Barry Jones]

Doesn't it ever worry you that so much of modern navaid electronics is integrated ??

I was brought up with boats from an early age and was always taught to never leave yourself in a position where a single equipment failure could leave you exposed to risk.

Now that I'm almost grown up (I don't think men ever fully grow up !), when I design and install equipment on boats, I always ensure that there is a degree of redundancy, avoiding single points of failure. Networking and Ethernet is great on the stand at the boat show, but it gives me the heebie jeebies after a few years in a salt environment and I only use it on isolated point-to-point stuff.

Thoughts ??

 

[savageseadog]

I'm an electronics engineer of many years and a yachtsman and I tend to agree with you. Simpler is better, a fully integrated system is great for racing but would always suggest having independent back up instruments and paper charts. The point at which I draw the line on automation is at networked autopilots, they seem a completely pointless idea to me.

 

[Barry Jones]

I work on a lot of commercial vessels and they would never have the degree of integration that yachts have.
What can go wrong will go wrong is not a bad maxim to adopt..

Also, I find that integration is largely a manufacturers strategy to keep you locked in to their products.

It's nice to replace one item as technology moves on without having to upgrade the whole system.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

I'm an electronics engineer of many years and a yachtsman and I tend to agree with you. Simpler is better, a fully integrated system is great for racing but would always suggest having independent back up instruments and paper charts. The point at which I draw the line on automation is at networked autopilots, they seem a completely pointless idea to me.

Surely if you are going to feel the need for backup instruments, then you must have backup sensors as well?

So, 2 impellers, 2 windspeed things up the mast, 2 GPS aerials?

Having said that I can tell you from personal experience that if you have a complete N2K system and you have a backbone failure it is VERY hard to find out which of your 10 instruments, 7 sensors, 17 drop cables and 34 connectors is at fault.

 

[wizard]

I use two systems independent of each other but with the ability to mix and match as necessary. It seemed logical when upgrading to keep the old system still running and also an independent GPS plus the faithful charts, always up to date and a fix on the chart hourly

 

[Barry Jones]

Def. two GPS even if its only an independent back-up black box GPS outputting NMEA and distributed via a GPS1/GPS2 switch.

Wind instruments you can do without for cruising. GPS doubles as a log with SOG.

As said before, simple is best when all hell breaks loose and you are trying to handle the boat and focus on that, not your computers.

Its becoming a common problem on ships where the young officers believe everything they see on the screen and stop looking out the windows.

Surely if you are going to feel the need for backup instruments, then you must have backup sensors as well?

So, 2 impellers, 2 windspeed things up the mast, 2 GPS aerials?

Having said that I can tell you from personal experience that if you have a complete N2K system and you have a backbone failure it is VERY hard to find out which of your 10 instruments, 7 sensors, 17 drop cables and 34 connectors is at fault.

 

[savageseadog]

Surely if you are going to feel the need for backup instruments, then you must have backup sensors as well?

So, 2 impellers, 2 windspeed things up the mast, 2 GPS aerials?

What I meant was a conventional compass, paper charts and backup GPS, as long as there is a GPS no other instrument is totally necessary, if going offshore a sextant is a must. The third most important instrument for coastal sailing is a sounder. If soundings are absolutely necessary, without working electronics a sounding line can be used of course.
One additional consideration with elaborate networked systems is a possible lack of familiarity with new crew or those that don't normally use them.

 

[pappaecho]

On the subject of 2 GPS and backup, I bought a gps transponder new on Ebay for £10. It is the size of a large postage stamp and gives just as good a signal as the Garmin original. What's more it works through the wheelhouse window, and so it stuck to the dashboard

 

[prv]

Surely most of the networked stuff is unnecessary though? All you need in this day and age is a chart and a GPS - and with half the mobile phones out there having a GPS chip you could lose every single instrument that belongs to the boat and still know where you are better than everyone did in the 80s.

Can't imagine why anyone would want a backup wind sensor - I don't even have a primary one apart from the burgee.

Pete

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Surely most of the networked stuff is unnecessary though? All you need in this day and age is a chart and a GPS - and with half the mobile phones out there having a GPS chip you could lose every single instrument that belongs to the boat and still know where you are better than everyone did in the 80s.

Can't imagine why anyone would want a backup wind sensor - I don't even have a primary one apart from the burgee.

Pete

Of course it is possible to sail without all that stuff, but whether it is prudent, safe or desireable is another matter.

We recently had a 300 mile passage planned, a fair portion of it which was going to be in moderate to rough seas, and in the dark.

Our network failure, which turned out to be one small plug meant we had no depth, wind, speed, gps, radar, ais, or fuel tank readings.

Yes, we could have gone but it would have been less safe and less fun.

I have a backup GPS. I have a spare handheld GPS. I have a full set of paper charts. I have a laptop that I can rig up if neccessary, I have a sextant and tables (and the ability to use them),

BUT....sailing is my hobby I saw no reason to push things.
2 days later we had everything back working and a very nice cruise followed.