Insurance

[Twister_Ken]

Always insured with Pants, never been asked for a survey.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I'm insured with Towergate and have been with them for several years. They seem to ask for a survey every five years, and always warn me a year ahead that a survey will be needed the next year.
At first I thought it was just an expensive nuisance but I now take the view that it is helpful to get somebody else to check things over. My surveyor has always found things which I have missed.
I do resent the cost though!

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

My thoughts are that after a few years of ownership, an insurance survey, if done by the 'purchase surveyor', should be cheaper as he has written up everything previously and merely has to check over that which may put the boat at risk or that which has devalued the boat in a big way since last survey.... damage etc.
When I went back to my surveyor for an insurance survey he was of the same opinion and it was cheaper than the original survey five years previously.

 

[alahol2]

Give Traffords a ring and ask if they are willing to insure on the basis of your last survey. They certainly accepted my 3 year old survey and haven't asked for another in the 4 years since swapping from GJW.

 

[neale]

Whenever the subject of insurance companies come up I always recommend a proper read of the policy small print as there are often some 'interesting' things in there.

I was insured by one company, I can't remember who now, on my 20+ year old boat and was happily thinking I was doing all right as I had never been asked for a survey. Anyway, on renewal, which they were perfectly happy to do without requesting a survey again, I happened to read the policy and there was a term that stated something along the lines of 'all vessels over 20 years old should have a full survey of less than 5 years old'.

This got me thinking. What if I suffered a total loss. The first thing the insurance company would say is "Can we see your survey". My cries of "but you never asked for one" would fall on deaf ears when they pointed out the T's & C's that I had signed to say I accepted.

So, the moral is; even if you are not asked for one by your long standing insurance comapny, read the small print. They may still expect you to have one, so don't give them a simple get out clause should the unthinkable happen.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Tranona,

I know you love a sparring match as we generally disagree on things but as you don't have a clue about my boat, and may be rather surprised if you did see the spec's etc, keep your disparaging remarks to yourself ta !

Bit of an over reaction there but it did cause me to have a good read of your interesting web site. It would be fascinating to hear more about what you have done to improve a boat that you are obviously fairly keen on.

I might well be "teaching grannie to suck eggs" here, and apologies if I am doing so, but be careful about "agreed value". Its not the same as you quoting a value and them levying a premium based on that value. All marine insurance is like that and it wont stop the insurance company coming back to haggle about the market selling price for an Anderson 22 if you have a total loss.

 

[Seajet]

Bosun Higgs,

I understand what you mean about the agreed value, that was done properly with a survey but is out of date now in some ways.

If you're really interested I'll give you a rundown on the boat if you PM me your e-mail, I don't really want to publicize too many details and no doubt next minute I'd be accused of bragging or going on about my boat...

 

[pvb]

I was faced with the survey request last year, when my boat was approaching 20 years old. I wasn't keen on the bother or expense, and got it reinsured with Navigators & General through Nautical Insurance Services in Essex with an agreement that no survey would be needed until the boat's 25 years old. As background, it's a Hallberg Rassy, the excess is £250, and the premium is just under 0.5% of the insured value.

 

[Tranona]

the premium is just under 0.5% of the insured value.

The %age of insured value is a largely meaningless measure. Yacht insurance has two main components, the first is third party which is largely fixed, although it varies according to the type of boat, location and use. The second is for hull and machinery which may still vary according to type of use and location, but is mostly related to value (that is the financial exposure the insurance company is taking on).

It follows therefore that if the value of the boat is low the %age represented by the premium is high. I have two boats. One is low value and the premium is 1.4% of the insured value of hull and machinery. The second is higher value, but otherwise is used and located in the same way the premium is .56% of the insured value. Same policy, same cover, same company.

However, on the second boat I have paid 3 different premiums in successive years - again same company. In the first year the boat was based in Corfu and the premium was .76% of the value, reflecting the greater risk and higher cost of potential claims. In the second year I extended the insurance to cover the passage back to the UK round the outside and unsurprisingly the premium increased to .91% value - again reflecting the increased risk. The boat is now moored in Poole with the normal range of cruising - which is why the premium comes out at a similar %age to yours.

When comparing premiums from different companies you have to check that the cover is the same and all the details of the boat and usage are the same. Then you only need to compare the monetary value. All a %age shows is that you can divide one number by another and multiply by 100 - otherwise it is meaningless (as a comparator).

Some companies quote their premiums breaking the cover down into individual components - there are usually items like personal effects, cover for racing, legal cover etc in addition to the two main elements identified above. The premium quoted is a sum of their assessment of the risk, not calculated as a %age of value.

 

[pvb]

The %age of insured value is a largely meaningless measure.

I'm sure it is. I could have quoted the premium and said what my boat is insured for, but (like Seajet) I preferred not to.

 

[Tranona]

Wonder where all this secrecy about what boats are worth has come from? Bet if you told me what your boat was (model and year) I like others could have a pretty good guess at what it was worth!

After all, asking prices which are a reasonable proxy for values are in the public domain.

 

[Seajet]

Not on past form it seems !

 

[Domino1]

Hi guys, my 2p worth, I am a Marine Insurance broker, managing a marine division, I deal with nothing else except yacht & pleasure craft and Marine Trades....engineers, boatyards, marina's etc etc. Before that I was a Marine Trades Underwriter for a couple of years for Towergate Marine (Lymington), the Yacht and Pleasurecraft insurance was undewritten from the Towergate Marine office in Cheltenham office. Anyways, now being an independent marine insurance broker, I access the entire market, so if you would like any advice/quotes etc feel free to call/email me and I will happily advise you or do the rounds for you.

Thanks

Domino (AKA Dominic)
Fowler Penfold Marine
01202 854557

 

[pvb]

Wonder where all this secrecy about what boats are worth has come from?

It's not "secrecy", it's "discretion" - something entirely different, and hopefully not an alien concept to you.

 

[Ubergeekian]

If you're really interested I'll give you a rundown on the boat if you PM me your e-mail, I don't really want to publicize too many details and no doubt next minute I'd be accused of bragging or going on about my boat...

It's that Rolls-Royce Pegasus in the outboard well, isn't it?

 

[Tranona]

Not on past form it seems !

Knowing the boat PVB has bet I could get within 5%.

Overall asking prices are a good proxy (proxy means representative of, not exactly the same) for market values - it is the outlyers that are unpredictable because either they are unusual or the condition/spec is way different from the norm. Asking prices are one of the reference points your surveyor will use to justify a valuation for insurance purposes.

Boats selling at near asking price is not news, so you don't hear about them - all you hear about are the fire sales and steals, which are not representative of the market as a whole.

 

[Tranona]

It's not "secrecy", it's "discretion" - something entirely different, and hopefully not an alien concept to you.

Then I wonder why one has to be "discreet" when I can pick up a brokerage listing with a boat the same as yours on it with a price against it. Neither the vendor, nor the potential purchaser sees a need to be "secret" or "discreet" about it!

 

[Seajet]

You are of course assuming the other boat to be 'the same'...As Ubergeekian has guessed, not many A22's have a Pegasus 104; shame the secret's out now, I'd got them convinced she was planing on the tip of the ballast bulb

 

[pvb]

Tranona, I know you love a sparring match.....

Never a truer word, obviously!

 

[Tranona]

Never a truer word, obviously!

No, just interested in why one wants to be "discreet" about something you cannot hide! You that raised the subject, not me.