Insurance without a survey?

NUTMEG

NUTMEG

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www.theblindsailor.co.uk
For more years than I care to remember I have insured my boats with Nav & Gen. From my Wayfarer days, through Seawych, Westerly and now with an elderly (but very pretty) Cornish Crabber mk1 gaffer I have never been asked for a survey.

My insurance limits me to 12 miles off shore but is happy with her being afloat all year around. I think there is a racing exclusion too. Premium is around £250 I think, and boat valued at £15000 with umpteen millions third party/public liability stuff.

Speaking to our yard manager today, he was amazed that I have never been asked for a survey.

So, question for the panel, how many of you HAVE to produce a survey to get insurance, and if that is normal, why don't I?

Cheers all,

Steve
 
Hey - don't tempt fate!

I think they like a recent survey for boats past a certain age - maybe the crabber doesn't ring alarm bells for them. Go with it and be thankful, I'd say!
 
I have had a now 28 year old Feeling 920 valued at £25000 for the last 14 years and never been asked for a survey either.
Your insurance seems high though. Although only normally afloat for 8 months p.a. I pay £202 for insurance that covers coastal waters plus the English Channel, Brest to Elbe. Have been with Nautical Insurance Services at Leigh on Sea for well over 30 years and 4 different boats. Had some clams too. No problems, they paid up straight away. Great service.
 
I've been with Nav and Gen since buying my current boat 8 years ago and they've never asked for a survey. Because we are venturing beyond the areas they will cover us for we are moving to another insurer. All we approached for quotes wanted a survey which we have just had. As well as the issues I was aware of, a couple of potentially nasty things were found which are now being rectified. Moral of the story? Surveys aren't all bad news and could save you in the long run.
 
I think most insurance companies will ask you for a survey when taking out new insurance.

Most however will not ask for a survey if you are renewing an existing policy - it makes it much easier for you to renew with the same co than to shop around for a cheaper policy and get landed with a survey cost of much more than the saving.
 
SteveG said:
I have had a now 28 year old Feeling 920 valued at £25000 for the last 14 years and never been asked for a survey either.
Your insurance seems high though. Although only normally afloat for 8 months p.a. I pay £202 for insurance that covers coastal waters plus the English Channel, Brest to Elbe. Have been with Nautical Insurance Services at Leigh on Sea for well over 30 years and 4 different boats. Had some clams too. No problems, they paid up straight away. Great service.
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Do you ever go to Holland and into the Inland waters? If so check if your cover extends once passed the sea lock. I discovered after 7 years cruising in Holland that the GJW policy ceases once you pass the locks. It can be extended, but you must ask.
 
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I am with Yachtmaster Insurance and have been very pleased with them. This year, on renewal they warned me that I would have to provide a survey in 1 year's time as the boat would be 25 years old and thereafter every 7 years.

Obviously it's not great news but if I was an insurer I would want evidence that the boat was being properly maintained and I have to take the view it keeps premiums down in the longer term!!
 
I think you are being over charged, mine is about £100 less and can sail as far as Brest. I am sure over the years I'll save more by having a survey than you pay without having one.

The survey is to work out how much a risk they hold should your boat be held together by gaffer tape.
 
My boat was 10 years old when we bought her and is now nearly 30. We have been insured with Haven Knox Johnson throughout, have never been asked for a survey by them. Based on the standard Brest to Elbe rate, we paid a little extra premium when we went to the Baltic, no extra for inland Holland when we lived there. They waived the extra premium for Biscay south of Brest and we then paid a little more for the western Med and a little more again for the eastern end.
Fortunately we have never needed to claim but I have read of several owners who had good service from them.
 
When GJW inisted on a survey at renewal I moved to HKJ who agreed unsurveyed cover to continue as long as I remained insured by them.
Having a newer boat, I'm now back with GJW after some concerns over HKJ's cover detailed in JFM's posts on the issue.
 
sailorman said:
Nothing wrong with "self insurance" if you can afford the premium
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Some harbours/ moorings authorities insist on you being insured (inc recovery costs) before they will let you hold a berth there.

I have also done a "self-survey" once when changing insurer, at the time I was able to sign it as a "Chartered Engineer" but I stopped paying the fees a few years back. But having sailed the same boat for 25 years, I think they have accepted that I won't be making any frivolous claims or ignoring essential repairs.
 
Bishop Skinner/Bluefin (AXA) do not require a survey for a boat until 20 years old or 25 years for Gold Members of RYA who have owned their craft for five years or more.
 
Searush said:
Some harbours/ moorings authorities insist on you being insured (inc recovery costs) before they will let you hold a berth there.

I have also done a "self-survey" once when changing insurer, at the time I was able to sign it as a "Chartered Engineer" but I stopped paying the fees a few years back. But having sailed the same boat for 25 years, I think they have accepted that I won't be making any frivolous claims or ignoring essential repairs.
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self insure meaning 3rd party only, you cover the rest ie possible total loss of your boat
 
KellysEye said:
Pantaenius wanted a survey of the boat and rigging less than10 years old. We had replaced the rigging.
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I was with AXA (Switzerland) with my 1981 HR, whose premiums had become ridiculous, despite never having made a claim, ever. When I asked Pantaenius for a quote they wanted a survey - expensive in Italy where I was moored. I shopped around a few others, who also wanted a survey - until I came upon Yachting24, an on-line company who didn't, and their premium was very competitive. It all seemed competently managed but I did have a slight worry about how a claim might be handled.

Then that very same year I was anchored in Croatia when I was hit by another yacht that dragged down on me in a gale and I sustained severe damage. In a bit of a panic I phoned the number on the claim form to be answered by "Pantaenius Insurance" - the company was the on-line arm of the one who had refused me without a survey.

They were magnificent, immediately sending a local surveyor for damage assessment, for which I went into a nearby marina - good fun single-handed in the still >40 knot winds and a damaged boat. The company kept in regular contact to follow events, assured me they would cover the full cost of repairs but, at the same time, advised me that the logical course would be a direct claim on the other yacht's insurance, which was immediately accepted by them; they were situated in Hamburg as is Pantaenius's head office - they consulted together, I think.

I can only recommend Yachting24 in the highest terms, they provided exemplary support at a time when I really needed it.
 
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With only 3rd party cover I save the annual cost of fully comp plus the costs of periodic surveys. When I add that up over a few years and compare the total with the resale value of my boat I think its a reasonable risk to take.
 
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