Insurance winterisation requirements vs. tubular heaters

[EugeneR]

I am planning to leave the boat in the water with a few tubular heaters, some on thermostats, and fully depending on mains supply. I intend to use the boat every week or two, so not sure it makes sense to drain everything down etc. We have never experienced power issues in our marina and we're on a tidal river.

One insurance policy I saw only covers frost damage if all manufacturers' winterisation requirements are complied with. Anyone have views or experience of insurers' likely position, should mains fail and there be subsequent damage? Is it reasonable to take the approach I am planning to take? If not, what would you do?

 

[Pinnacle]

Ah, but are you "winterising" the boat, or are you keeping it in commission? If the latter, the manufacturers recommendations wont apply to you.........or will they?

FWIW we use the boat all year round and someone is on the boat at max 2 week intervals ( usually shorter ) so we dont "winterise" anything. Boat is in a marina in Gosport.

 

[sailorman]

I am planning to leave the boat in the water with a few tubular heaters, some on thermostats, and fully depending on mains supply. I intend to use the boat every week or two, so not sure it makes sense to drain everything down etc. We have never experienced power issues in our marina and we're on a tidal river.

One insurance policy I saw only covers frost damage if all manufacturers' winterisation requirements are complied with. Anyone have views or experience of insurers' likely position, should mains fail and there be subsequent damage? Is it reasonable to take the approach I am planning to take? If not, what would you do?

Frost damage not normally covered, check-out the various Ins threads on the MoBo forum

 

[volvopaul]

Your boat will stand a better chance of not freezing up in the water than sat out the water on hard standing, reason is that its hull is sat in warmer water than maybe the outside temp on a very cold day. What you will find where you are moored is that the riverside of the boat that's exposed to the wind will be cooler, I know as I was moored there for a year.

So I'd just have a tube heater in the engine bay and one in the saloon, and one in each cabin all on stats to come in when the temp drops. I'd do a test beforehand to make sure if they all come on you don't overload your supply.

 

[sailorman]

Your boat will stand a better chance of not freezing up in the water than sat out the water on hard standing, reason is that its hull is sat in warmer water than maybe the outside temp on a very cold day. What you will find where you are moored is that the riverside of the boat that's exposed to the wind will be cooler, I know as I was moored there for a year.

So I'd just have a tube heater in the engine bay and one in the saloon, and one in each cabin all on stats to come in when the temp drops. I'd do a test beforehand to make sure if they all come on you don't overload your supply.

Drain the swim shower

 

[dkm]

+1 for swim shower and also windscreen washers

 

[rafiki_]

Drain the swim shower

Suggest you remove the shower head and replace with a 1/2" bsp brass bung from a plumbers store. (Note just done this on Rafiki today following VolvoPaul's suggestion). I have also covered the shower tap and recess with bubble wrap to give a bit of insulation.

 

[sailorman]

Suggest you remove the shower head and replace with a 1/2" bsp brass bung from a plumbers store. (Note just done this on Rafiki today following VolvoPaul's suggestion). I have also covered the shower tap and recess with bubble wrap to give a bit of insulation.

We never bother we dont have one

 

[rafiki_]

We never bother we dont have one

Good for you.

 

[EugeneR]

So what it comes down to, is unless you decommission and winterise your engins/boat, you are gambling at least your engins's worth on whether the power supply will hold?

I have asked my and jfm's insurer to clarify, but it seems that many people are taking a huge risk not so?

 

[EugeneR]

Ah, but are you "winterising" the boat, or are you keeping it in commission? If the latter, the manufacturers recommendations wont apply to you.........or will they?

Whether you keep it in commission or not, I guess is not relevant. With the policies I have seen, you are covered for frost damage iff manufacturers' winterisation requirements were complied with. So, it depends on what the manufacturer recommends when you keep the boat in commission. Unless the manufacturer says, "if you keep the boat in commission, use tubular heaters"...

 

[Nick_H]

So what it comes down to, is unless you decommission and winterise your engins/boat, you are gambling at least your engins's worth on whether the power supply will hold?

I have asked my and jfm's insurer to clarify, but it seems that many people are taking a huge risk not so?

No, for several reasons. Water temp in the Hamble probably doesn't go below 6-8 degs, so the part of your hull that's in the water becomes a big radiator keeping the engine bay above freezing. Add to this that your engines have a fairly big thermal mass, so they would need to suffer extended periods well below zero to drop to that level themselves. The main reason though is that even if they did drop below freezing, then so long as you have antifreeze in the closed circuit it wont damage the engine. How do you think your car manages?

It's ancilliary stuff like fresh water pipes and fittings that are at risk.

 

[rafiki_]

No, for several reasons. Water temp in the Hamble probably doesn't go below 6-8 degs, so the part of your hull that's in the water becomes a big radiator keeping the engine bay above freezing. Add to this that your engines have a fairly big thermal mass, so they would need to suffer extended periods well below zero to drop to that level themselves. The main reason though is that even if they did drop below freezing, then so long as you have antifreeze in the closed circuit it wont damage the engine. How do you think your car manages?

It's ancilliary stuff like fresh water pipes and fittings that are at risk.

For petrol engine sports boats, which tend to be raw water cooled, frost damage is a serious threat, which can cause the boat to sink. Unlikely on the Hamble or any salt water, but is not unknown inland. 3 or 4 winters ago, 6 raw water cooled boats sank at Tewkesbury Marina. Mind you, we saw temps down to -19c!
For most of us, as Nick says, the domestic water side is more of a threat.

 

[rlw]

No, for several reasons. Water temp in the Hamble probably doesn't go below 6-8 degs, so the part of your hull that's in the water becomes a big radiator keeping the engine bay above freezing. Add to this that your engines have a fairly big thermal mass, so they would need to suffer extended periods well below zero to drop to that level themselves. The main reason though is that even if they did drop below freezing, then so long as you have antifreeze in the closed circuit it wont damage the engine. How do you think your car manages?

Hmm cars don't have a freshwater cooling circuit that can freeze. There was a big fairline here locally that had to have all coolers replaced after the winter as the electrics had tripped in a bad freeze. 10K worth of damage. And it was on a mooring. Every spring round here there are new engines going in due to frost damage. Mainly petrol though.
I think if I would rely on electrics I would want a systems that texts me if the power trips.

 

[volvopaul]

No, for several reasons. Water temp in the Hamble probably doesn't go below 6-8 degs, so the part of your hull that's in the water becomes a big radiator keeping the engine bay above freezing. Add to this that your engines have a fairly big thermal mass, so they would need to suffer extended periods well below zero to drop to that level themselves. The main reason though is that even if they did drop below freezing, then so long as you have antifreeze in the closed circuit it wont damage the engine. How do you think your car manages?

Hmm cars don't have a freshwater cooling circuit that can freeze. There was a big fairline here locally that had to have all coolers replaced after the winter as the electrics had tripped in a bad freeze. 10K worth of damage. And it was on a mooring. Every spring round here there are new engines going in due to frost damage. Mainly petrol though.
I think if I would rely on electrics I would want a systems that texts me if the power trips.

Cars, vans, trucks, gensets all do have a fresh water system that can freeze , if the level of antifreeze does not meet the balance of ambient temp against it. Unless if course its a deutz and its air cooled.

 

[abraxus]

For petrol engine sports boats, which tend to be raw water cooled, frost damage is a serious threat, which can cause the boat to sink. Unlikely on the Hamble or any salt water, but is not unknown inland. 3 or 4 winters ago, 6 raw water cooled boats sank at Tewkesbury Marina. Mind you, we saw temps down to -19c!
For most of us, as Nick says, the domestic water side is more of a threat.

So what does one do with a petrol engined boat? Are tubular heaters ignition protected and safe in an engine bay?

 

[rafiki_]

So what does one do with a petrol engined boat? Are tubular heaters ignition protected and safe in an engine bay?

Most petrol engined boats have outdrives, so best thing to do is to run antifreeze into the water system through the outdrive. No need for a heater.

 

[Momac]

Plenty of folks use mains powered tube heaters or oil filled radiators or some sort of convector heater in the engine bay , or in the boats interior.
Not fan heaters.

Some people add insulation over the engine and block up the air intakes.

Boats survive winters here in the east midlands despite some pretty cold winters in the last few years (not last winter, which was quite mild).

I have seen 4 inches of ice over the marina water and my boat, and diesel engine, has survived. As have my neighbours petrol engines.


We did have floods last Christmas which cut the electricity supply on our pontoon . The marina was very quick to let us know, and to get it fixed.

By the way there is no need to heat the boat so it is toasty warm - just enough to keep the temperture above freezing.


Presumably there is very rarely a frost at locations within sight of the sea on the South coast of England?

.

 

[tribblehunter]

There is a new product on the market which will enable easy winterisation of sterndrive powered boats out of the water. Also good for raw water system cleaning using Rydlyme Marine.

www.flushsok.co.uk

No excess wastage and ensures all parts of the raw water system are properly protected (as long as the yard will allow you to run your vessel out of the water).

Ideal for clubs and groups of boat owners due to the price.

Yes I am the owner and developer of the product in case you wonder.

Brian
RR&i

 

[Assassin]

If in doubt get your policy and read it, if you are still unsure then contact your insurers and ask them for their winterising policy in writing and in plain English.

If there is a compliance doubt you have their policy, if you have done everything required and they have made an omission then you have the evidence; if you fail to do something then they have you, but at least you know what you should be doing.