Insurance for Ocean Sailing

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BrendanChandler

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www.brendanchandleryachtdelivery.co.uk
<font color="blue"> We are about to start a long Bluewater cruise which will last some years. We are currently insured with Pantaenius and would like to remain with them but they want to charge 5.5% for the Atlantic crossing and the Caribbean. They insist on 3 experienced crew for the crossing and cannot give cover for Panama.

Any suggestions welcome.</font>
 
If it is a choice between going uninsured and not going, then go. We spent two years on an Atlantic circuit and treasure them, we had the odd incident which would have been the basis for a claim , but the premiums would have been greater than our claim.
 
Hi Brendan,

I totally agree with jeanne. Our insurance company (Bishop Skinner) along with all the others we contacted, also insisted on 'three up' for the Transats, although they had, at the time, no problems with just the two of us once we were in the Caribbean. As with all insurance companies, there were the usual hurricane season caveats as well.

We didn't want an additional crew member as we always like to do the longer passages on our own - so something of a dilemma. The first time, after much chewing of finger nails, we decided that we would be losing too much by NOT going, so off we went. Our trips have therefore been insured everywhere except the 'bit across the Pond' which, in our view is without doubt the safest part!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Please don't let lack of insurance stop you. When you think about it, most of us have so little opportunity to realise our dreams for all sorts of reasons (work, health, cost, family reasons or time) that to let insurance prevent you having an experience you will never forget, is IMHO, intolerable.

Yes, you may initially have the odd 'twinge' of guilt or worry, but I guarantee that you will hardly ever think about it once you're off. For me, long passages are simply fantastic and far and away more satisfying and relaxing than 'local' cruising.
For some reason we all imagine that 'something changes' when we talk of doing the longer trips, whereas in reality, we still have exactly the same skills of boat handling, navigation etc as when cruising locally.

Just another thought. Many years ago my company threw a client bash in London where, amongst others, Robin Knox Johnson was a Guest of Honour. A bit later in the evening we spoke and I somewhat ashamedly mentioned that I only sailed across channel etc and couldn't imagine the dangers of ocean sailing. This super man looked me straight in the eye and said, "Good God, sailing in the Channel, with it's awful weather and ships from all directions is a damn sight more challenging than ocean sailng, give me the wide open spaces anytime!"

I said that can't be true, but he assured me that, for him, it definitely was! That conversation stuck in mind and was instrumental in the later decisions we made.

I could not agree more with jeanne. The experience, despite many others doing it, is unique to you and you'll never forget it. So go ahead, and to hell with the 'safety net!!

Cheers Jerry
 
I've heard Admiral are good, I used Pantaenius for my Atlantic circuit but would not use them again. There were a number of reasons, but I was left un-insured whilst still paying a monthly premium.
Have a great trip, and leave yourself plenty of time for the Azores, four weeks was not enough.
Neil
 
We insured with Allianz, (at a cost around 1%), highly recommend, for two ocean trips. Although Boat is valuable made entirely out of 40mm teak so would break most things.

I agree with everyone else, if you cant afford though, dont worry just go. The hardest and most skillfull sailing you will meet is around the UK. (no tides, obvious current and a good idea what the weather will be doing tommorrow or next week - plus which way the wind will be blowing).
Therefore, Ocean sailing should be cheaper than fighting ones way around the Coast! you only have to worry about that super tanker with it's radar off!
 
This might be depressing or liberating but if you have a major problem 1000 miles offshore who will be making the claim??? so get the relative to pay the premium and you go sailing!!!
 
Personally I've only ever had third party insurance anyway, and that's only to satisfy officials in foreign ports. It's all a matter of one's philosophical outlook - the insurance won't be of any help in a force 11, and if you're scared of losing your boat rather than your life, why go sailing at all? You can always buy another boat! Better to rely on seamanship. Motto of the Hanseatic league: "navigare necesse est, vivere non necesse". "It is necessary to sail the seas, it is not necessary to live."
 
[ QUOTE ]
Please don't let lack of insurance stop you. When you think about it, most of us have so little opportunity to realise our dreams for all sorts of reasons (work, health, cost, family reasons or time) that to let insurance prevent you having an experience you will never forget, is IMHO, intolerable.

[/ QUOTE ]
IMHO having at least third party insurance is essential unless you are seriously rich. If you do ding another boat then these days you may find yourself liable for silly sums even for quite superficial gelcoat damage. And if you injure someone, heaven forbid, consider yourself financially ruined. I suppose you could reckon on doing a runner in the event, but sometimes they'll catch up with you.

[ QUOTE ]
Just another thought. Many years ago my company threw a client bash in London where, amongst others, Robin Knox Johnson was a Guest of Honour. A bit later in the evening we spoke and I somewhat ashamedly mentioned that I only sailed across channel etc and couldn't imagine the dangers of ocean sailing. This super man looked me straight in the eye and said, "Good God, sailing in the Channel, with it's awful weather and ships from all directions is a damn sight more challenging than ocean sailng, give me the wide open spaces anytime!"

[/ QUOTE ] True! The Channel in bad weather is a real pain.
 
Hi Andrew,

Entirely agree with you re third party insurance, but Brendan specifically referred (as I did) to the 'Pond' crossings. True, you might just hit another yacht, possibly even a ship, but compared with the risks 'near' land, it ain't really that likely is it?!
Be assured, we turned all this over and over in our minds before deciding, but now, would not hesitate to go again.

As I said in my post, we were insured (fully comp. actually) everywhere on each side - 'twas the bit in the middle we took chances on!

And that's definitely worthwhile IMHO!

Cheers Jerry
 
I, too, am with Pantaenius and considered leaving them but will continue to stay insured with them. We made three claims in two years, one for gear failure (one year old rigging snapping mid-Atlantic), one for damaged sustanied in heavy weather and a third for some fool ramming us in a harbour (they paid in the end). Each time P paid up with the minimum of fuss.

Your 5.5% uplift sounds like a bargain, we paid double the premium and twice the excess for a year's Atlantic sailing.

My heart is with 'just do it nothing will happen' camp, my head is definitely in the 'sh*t happens' grouping.
 
I think the 5.5% was probably 5.5% of boat value. Not the increase in premium which, as you say, would be a bit of a bargain /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Doh, you're probably right. In Rival Spirit terms for a boat valued at £56k we paid £750 in 1996 up from about £400. Today we pay £750 for for the usual Gironde to Bergen cruising area.
 
<font color="blue"> Thanks guys,

The rate of 5.5% was the rate for insurance which applied to about £53k gives a premium of almost £3,000 and that is net of 40% NCB.

Last time we did a circuit of the Atlantic in 1999/2000 Pantaneous charged us about £700 with no warranties about crew members. We have done a lot of long distance sailing since and as everybody says the ocean part, especially on the trade winds route is the easy bit.

We once had a little bump into a buoy on the Thames and Pantaneous were excellent at handling the claim. I would like to stay with them but this seems looney. It makes one wonder whether the underwriters who set these rates really understand about sailing. The dangers of sailing in the solent or the channel and in and out of crowded marinas is far more likely to produce a claim than following trade routes across open oceans.

Brendan</font>
 
i would certainly give admiral a call they insured us last year for the atlantic crossing and cruising at the other end
they wanted 3 up for the crossing but the cost was a touch under 1 .5 % of boat value.
 
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