Insurance : a little known clause explained - worth the read

Not particularly relevant to UK insurance ploicies as they don't include that specific clause. They do often though adjust payments to take into account wear and tear - usually expressed in terms of "betterment" - that is they are only required to put you back into the position you were in before the claim.
 
It all boils down to "read the policy". Boat insurance is not like car insurance where price tends to be the major discriminator. UK policies can contain all sorts of exceptions from excluding Eire (UK and Continental waters from Elbe to Brest) to any claim arising from mechanical breakdown.
If you read and don't like the terms of your insurance, ask for a change and if no success, change companies.
 
awol said:
It all boils down to "read the policy". Boat insurance is not like car insurance where price tends to be the major discriminator. UK policies can contain all sorts of exceptions from excluding Eire (UK and Continental waters from Elbe to Brest) to any claim arising from mechanical breakdown.
If you read and don't like the terms of your insurance, ask for a change and if no success, change companies.
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Interesting - how does "UK and Continental Waters from Brest to Elbe" exclude Ireland.

Has Ireland somehow become detached from Europe? Having specifically asked this question of my broker and had it confirmed in writing that the Atlantic coast of Ireland was covered..

Admittedly it was nearly 19 years ago!!
 
charles_reed said:
Interesting - how does "UK and Continental Waters from Brest to Elbe" exclude Ireland.

Has Ireland somehow become detached from Europe? Having specifically asked this question of my broker and had it confirmed in writing that the Atlantic coast of Ireland was covered..

Admittedly it was nearly 19 years ago!!
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Must be continental drift since the last century 'cos all of Eire is west of Brest now (and the Elbe is to the east). But you read your policy, asked the question and got the answer in writing. If Eire was included in the terms why did they need to do that?
 
awol said:
It all boils down to "read the policy". Boat insurance is not like car insurance where price tends to be the major discriminator. UK policies can contain all sorts of exceptions from excluding Eire (UK and Continental waters from Elbe to Brest) to any claim arising from mechanical breakdown.
If you read and don't like the terms of your insurance, ask for a change and if no success, change companies.
Click to expand...

IIRC, almost all new policies I've taken out (change insurer, not a renewal) have excluded Southern Ireland as a crusing location. Given that my home port is on Anglesey, it's pretty evident that I need to have it listed on my policy. I've never had a problem getting it listed and never paid a premium above the initial quote for doing so.
 
I know a British owner whose yacht was dismas
ted in Cork who wasn't paid out due to him not realising that his cover didn't extend to Ireland. I believe it may have ended with him losing the boat.
 
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I think that insurance people just make up rules on the spot. Mine said that I had to be out of Biscay by end of September. No problem, but I wasn't certain where I'd be spending the winter so asked for a more precise definition.

I asked something along the lines of "do you use the IMO definition of Biscay as published in their document "xyz" on "nnnn" and amended on "nnnn". I can't remember the details but I was being very specific. The reply was that they didn't use the IMO definition and that I needed to be South of Coruna before start of October.

I was considering storage ashore in Viveiro or a yard a couple of miles North of Coruna so mentioned this fact. I found out that there would not be an extra charge for storage ashore and they might be able to give me clearance to sail there. I believe that my £1,000 excess still applied North of Coruna (even by 1 nm).

I didn't follow this up as I am wintering in Vigo, but was surprised that they had invented their own definition of Biscay instead of using the IMO one. I assume that this is due to an assessment of previous claims. However, locals didn't see any problems sailing along that part of the coast (unless you were stupid and ignored the weather).
 
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Mistroma said:
(unless you were stupid and ignored the weather).
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Which is the whole point. If you arent stupid and dont ignore the weather then sailing Biscay in winter would be OK wouldnt it?

I really dont know why people bitch so much about insurance. Surely they expect the premium to relate to the risk as seen by the insurance company, and surely they expect an insurance contract like any other contract to contain contract terms. Its almost as if people expect to insure their boat and absolutely every possible problem to be covered irrespective of how badly they maintain the boat and how stupidly they use it.
 
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charles_reed said:
Interesting - how does "UK and Continental Waters from Brest to Elbe" exclude Ireland.

Has Ireland somehow become detached from Europe? Having specifically asked this question of my broker and had it confirmed in writing that the Atlantic coast of Ireland was covered..

Admittedly it was nearly 19 years ago!!
Click to expand...

Most people would not speak of Ireland being "on the continent" any more than they would of Scotland or Wales, or indeed England.

To be comprehensive it could have said "European Union waters" I suppose to avoid any misunderstanding, but I can't help thinking much of what is written in the insurance world is intended to leave lots of loopholes for the company to crawl through to avoid paying what the customer has been led to believe he would receive.

Betterment for example - will certainly be used to reduce payment for insured objects that are damaged. I've never noticed premiums being reduced to reflect the reduction in liability.
 
My gripe about insurance is that, much of the time, people buy insurance policies which aren't actually going to be valid. Common case is pretending that your car is kept in a nice, safe neighbourhood, registered at a family member's address, to get a lower premium. If you do that you are legally uninsured which is the same as not having a policy at all.

This year I didn't bother insuring the boat. Both my mooring and my winter storage arrangements were effectively uninsurable, so I would have been throwing money away. You takes your chances...
 
Robwhelton said:
....
This year I didn't bother insuring the boat. Both my mooring and my winter storage arrangements were effectively uninsurable, so I would have been throwing money away. You takes your chances...
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I would still want third party.
And cover for damage while being sailed or visiting another port would be good.
I could accept taking my own risks on my own mooring though.

TBH, I find the thing to do is talk to a broker or two. If the risk is sensible, often it can be insured.
Insurance is to cover you for unlikely events though, not 'russian roulette'.
 
lw395 said:
I would still want third party.
And cover for damage while being sailed or visiting another port would be good.
I could accept taking my own risks on my own mooring though.

TBH, I find the thing to do is talk to a broker or two. If the risk is sensible, often it can be insured.
Insurance is to cover you for unlikely events though, not 'russian roulette'.
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I did think about the 3rd party bit, but tbh the waters are pretty quiet up here. I could envisage causing damage to a 3rd party if the boat broke from its mooring, but I wouldn't have been covered for that.
I have been unable to find insurance for DIY moorings- some people seem to have this as a grandfather right, lucky for them.

Since having an insurable mooring is one of the material facts of the policy, to be unable to meet this would, as I understand it, void the whole policy. I suppose I could, perhaps, attempt to arrange a bespoke policy which would take account of the mooring status, but I just don't see the point, really.
 
charles_reed said:
Interesting - how does "UK and Continental Waters from Brest to Elbe" exclude Ireland.

Has Ireland somehow become detached from Europe? Having specifically asked this question of my broker and had it confirmed in writing that the Atlantic coast of Ireland was covered..

Admittedly it was nearly 19 years ago!!
Click to expand...

I got them to explicitly list Ireland.
 
Robwhelton said:
Since having an insurable mooring is one of the material facts of the policy, to be unable to meet this would, as I understand it, void the whole policy. I suppose I could, perhaps, attempt to arrange a bespoke policy which would take account of the mooring status, but I just don't see the point, really.
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If your mooring is licensed by the Crown Estates one of their conditions is 3rd party insurance. Can you not get your local mooring contractor to inspect your gear and use that to placate an insurance company? If the CE haven't found you yet - good luck to you.
 
matelot said:
Which is the whole point. If you arent stupid and dont ignore the weather then sailing Biscay in winter would be OK wouldnt it?

I really dont know why people bitch so much about insurance. Surely they expect the premium to relate to the risk as seen by the insurance company, and surely they expect an insurance contract like any other contract to contain contract terms. Its almost as if people expect to insure their boat and absolutely every possible problem to be covered irrespective of how badly they maintain the boat and how stupidly they use it.
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+1

There are another couple of catches I found out about a few years ago, with a previous insurer. My wife was listed on the policy as joint owner but it turned out she wasn't insured as skipper as she hadn't filled in a proposal form. Second point was that if one of us used the tender to go alongside say a harbour wall to take lines and the other brought the boat over, that's single handed sailing even for such a short distance. Since then we've always noted her on the policy and had single handed cover.
 
awol said:
If your mooring is licensed by the Crown Estates one of their conditions is 3rd party insurance. Can you not get your local mooring contractor to inspect your gear and use that to placate an insurance company? If the CE haven't found you yet - good luck to you.
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Nope... now that I am no longer moored there I can say publicly- no CE licensing, no mooring contractors, it's all DIY. Pros and Cons. It'll change one day, but there's a lot of resistance.
 
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