Instruments - ST40 vs ST60

[CharlesM]

Hello all

I neet to kit out my boat with all nav instruments.

I notice ST40 are a lot cheaper than ST60's.

What do I get by installing ST60's rather than ST40's besides a flatter wallet?

Any other makes I should consider.

Finances are allways an issue.

Cheers
Charles

 

[capricorn]

Been through this recently.

ST40 seemed good value but I didn't like the digital wind instrument and there's no st40 gps repeater which I wanted.

Also dodn't like the rectangular shape of st40 displays but purely a personal thing.

ST60 bigger clearer displays and I think better transducers.

Didn't like being tied into Raymarine's networking prototcol which you're tied into with both st40 and st60.

The st60 multifunction graphic display and also the wind instrument both really nice but loads of money.

I liked the st60 kit but couldn't justify the cost. I bought Navman 3100 series instead.

 

[FullCircle]

I went for the Navman 3100 - cheaper all round and with full capability. So, to sum up, all the ST60 facility, less than ST40 cost. Well made and big readability. Also has a cheap NMEA repeater junction box at about 39 quid. If you want to interface the wind to autopilot this is it.
Note Raymarine has Seatalk between, which is fast, but do you need it> Its costly.
If you can get away with less, then Navman 100 or even Silva Star are good.
Latest NASA Clipper wind has full NMEA capability.
And the GPS repeater of choice for me is always the NASA Clipper. See Milltech's site allgadgets.co.uk for stunning price.

 

[aidancoughlan]

Re: Instruments - ST40 vs ST60 - Navman 3100 instead

Another one for Navman 3100 .... I looked at them all at the boat show... starting out 'wanting' the ST60's, didnt like the size & shape of the ST40, and eventually went for the Navman 3100 series on price.... package arrived yesterday (eventually, ordered immediately after show!) - it feels like good quality kit, looks well and compares well on function.

Best price I could get was from MES, but delivery took ages (seems to be a Plastimo problem - several sources told me the same thing), and I'm still waiting on Wind instrument.

 

[gcwhite]

Re: Instruments - ST40 vs ST60 - Navman 3100 instead

The ST 60 family are seriously good instruments and so stylish especially if you have them flush fitted. They also complement the E & C series plotters and radar.

Don't ruin the ship for....

 

[Sans Bateau]

Re: Instruments - ST40 vs ST60 - Navman 3100 instead

If you are planning on keeping your boat for a few years, fit Raymarine. There is a post currently on this site where someone is trying to get spares for Stowe instruments; a great product in their day. A lot of products come and go, Raymarine still manufacture spares for some very old kit, old St50 kit from 10 or 15 years ago. Point is you will always get spares if you nead them.

My boat is fitted with ST50 equipment. Raymarine are great with backup and support. But its your choice.

 

[ShipsWoofy]

Re: Instruments - ST40 vs ST60 - Navman 3100 instead

[ QUOTE ]
Don't ruin the ship for....


[/ QUOTE ]

Are you suggesting that you should prioritise instruments on them matching rather than function. I know yachts are considered to many a show pieces, but we must also remember that at the end of the day they are little more than a tool, as is your car.

Many instrument companies have specialist knowledge in some areas and not others, does it really matter if your sounder does not match the log, if both items are built by companies that have years of experience in their own fields. For example, Lowrance and Eagle make better sounders than any of the offerings from yachtie companies IMO.

I would never take second best in order to achieve a matching instrument pod, that would be daft. Obviously size and price of individual components has to be taken into consideration.

If this is not what you meant, then I will stand corrected.

 

[FullCircle]

Re: Instruments - ST40 vs ST60 - Navman 3100 instead

Poor Aiden,
I was in the MES queue before you then. Mine all arrived a couple of weeks ago, and the JRC1800 Radar Chartplotter. Interfaced with the Jeanneau standard ST4000 Wheelpilot, I think this is a nicely integrated system. MES also gave me a good deal on the Navman3100 repeater for the Navigation Area. Add a DSC and a handheld, masthead VHF & Windex,GPS Antenna, all up about 2600 quid.
Somewhat less than the C70 Radar/Chartplotter and 4 pod ST60 setup with all the above which was priced at £4k.
I agree with Woof. Don't be a fashion victim. And I think Navman are serious players in for the long term with Plastimo.

 

[Shanta]

Re: Instruments - ST40 vs ST60 - Navman 3100 instead

Nothing wrong with the ST40 series. Fitted lots. No returns or faults yet. ST60 more knobs and whistles slightly less robust.

 

[FullCircle]

Re: Instruments - ST40 vs ST60 - Navman 3100 instead

Dear Nutter,
didn't say they weren't robust, just costly pound for pound. No issue with any of them, and had NASA Clipper on the current boat which haven't given me any trouble either. Had Silva Star on my Limbo, Navico years ago on an Evolution. Money/Choice at the end of the day.

 

[Roy]

I have st 60s and other raymarine stuff which all works very well with each piece interacting. Expensive? Yes, but also great product. Have used cheaper brands before on other boats and they too worked well.

 

[aidancoughlan]

Re: Instruments - ST40 vs ST60 - Navman 3100 instead

I wouldn't venture to criticise the ST40 too much as I didnt look at them too closely because of the size, but it's worth noting that the size is not 'standard' instrument size which render it unsuitable for a direct replacement for other instruments...

 

[isandell]

Dont forget that you can mix and match ST40 and ST60 (and older 30, 40 and 80 - even 290 if you can afford them).

I have ST40 wind, ST80 close hauled, ST60 tridata, ST80 repeater and ST60 repeater - all bought as specials, second hand etc. They match well enough (ST30 and ST50 are different style and might look a bit out of place. They all talk each other and a cheap interface box (from ebay) means that they talk to NMEA GPS.

Ian

 

[wiggy]

ST 40 can be a direct replacement for older square units, i've done it and the holes are fine.

 

[DJE]

Not completely tied to Raymarine Sea Talk

We have ST60 wind and multi display instruments. The Multi has NMEA in and out connections and interfaces fine with our Furuno GPS.

 

[CharlesM]

Re: Not completely tied to Raymarine Sea Talk

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Generally seems that all types do the job.

Once on Raymarine, does that mean you cannot interface with other makes? I do not know anything about the networking of nav instruments, but thought NMEA was a open or common protocol which each supplier uses?

Cheers
Charles

 

[malcp]

Re: Not completely tied to Raymarine Sea Talk

NMEA is a general / open standard. Certain brands will support NMEA as an interface, perhaps not on all units, only certain ones. In the case of Raymarine I believe the ST60 Multi supports NMEA (See DJE post above, or Raymarine www site). Failing that there's a Raymarine NMEA/Seatalk converter box you can buy that will do the job, albeit another piece of kit. Or if you have a Raymarine A/P you should find NMEA on that.

Generally all brands have their own proprietary protocol to interlink their own kit, and then have NMEA interface links (perhaps on certain items only) to allow connection of other manufacturer's kit. Some have specific NMEA/Proprietary protocol converter boxes (B&G H1000 comes to mind). But the NMEA protocol is usually a limited functionality compared to the propretary busses, eg depth alarms won't propagate to all units, or backlight on/off/level set on one unit won't be set on the others, so you have to go round and set all manually.

Best thing is to decide what instrument functions you want (eg depth, speed, Wind, CH Wind, A/P, Chart plotter, Radar etc) then shortlist manufacturers kit which does this, you like & fits the wallet, and then see how they can be connected to other functions like chart plotter etc (if required), paying particular attention to the interface between the different manufacturer's kit. For example, NMEA may be supported by kit A, but check if it outputs the correct sentence to be compatible with Kit B also with NMEA. I'm afraid you will need to look into it more deeply. To illustrate the point, my B&G Network kit outputs NMEA "VWR" which is wind speed and direction. Yet My Raymarine C70 does not support this sentence, only NMEA MWV, similar information, but slightly different format. So I can't monitor Wind speed and direction on C70 (by this method. The NMEA/Seatalk converter box will do it).

If it was me doing this, I'd likely keep the same manufacturer for basic sailing instruments. This allows alarm cancelling and backlighting to be done on one unit and it gets repeated to the rest, via the proprietary bus; not possible on NMEA. Then I might consider looking around for Chart plotting / Radar / A/P from other sources. Then I'd check that the Chart plotter will output required Nav information for repeating on sailing instrument and I'd check the NMEA sentence types on both kits for compatibility. Then if you want instrument data repeated on chart plotter you'll have to check the NMEA sentences output by the sailing instruments are accepted by your choice of chart plotter. A bit involved if you are not used to this kind of stuff I'm afraid. Depends how far you want to go. But you should look into it to avoid expensive disappointment. The easy option is to stay with one manufacturer.

 

[CharlesM]

Re: Not completely tied to Raymarine Sea Talk

malcp

Thanks for that. Although it confuses me more, at least I not have a reason to be confused.

That was a good in depth heads up. I will keep it in mind.

I am thinking of perhaps ST40, TARGET or NAVMAN 1000.

Not sure of the value of a wind instrument though - 300-400 quid for this bit of kit...?

later
Charles

 

[malcp]

Re: Not completely tied to Raymarine Sea Talk

CharlesM, re:- Wind instrument.

On my boat sailing upwind it's hard to see the telltales on the genoa past the mainsail, unless you sit down to leeward in the cockpit. Alternatively you can watch the windex at the mast head. The wind instrument saves you getting a crick in the neck!

In addition sailing dead downwind it helps gybe avoidance, but do make sure the wind direction needle can be adjusted fast enough (small damping setting), or the wind can get behind the mainsail before the needle's responded. A pet moan of mine I'm afraid.

All IMHO, of course!

 

[coco]

The french magazine Voiles et Voiliers published a test of wind instruments in their october 2004 issue. Things considered (and measured) were price, construction, accuracy, functionality. Ranking is as follows:
1. Navman Wind 3150
1. Tacktick Micronet mn 100
3. Raymarine Rotavecta ST40
4. Raymarine ST60
4. Silva NX2
4. Furuno RO Wind
7. Nasa Marine Clipper
7. Simrad IS12
7. Furuno FI-303
7. Simrad IS 15
7. NKE Topline
7. B&G Hydra 2000