Instrument Upgrade for Dual Helm

Sammy Lou

Sammy Lou

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Hi,

I'm hoping for some advise for the most cost effective solution for renewing the instruments on a small (26') dual helm yacht.

Some background:

The boat is currently fitted with (1) separate NASA clipper depth and log units at the helm (tiller steered boat - instruments are mounted port side of companionway) and (2) separate NASA clipper depth and log repeaters at the pilot house helm.

The current (original) instruments are old but the depth system works OK. However the log does not & I assume that this is due to the (through hull) wheel/speed unit. I have no problem retained the old instruments if useful.

I have a new/second hand 5" GPS unit to fit at the helm this winter and would use PC or tablet or iphone etc for any inner helm nav.

I'm planning to buy and fit a mast top (mast is off the boat for winter at present) wind direction and speed instrument

The problem(s) that I have is that with the plotter and a new wind instrument installed where the current helm instruments are there is not enough room to (neatly) install two separate instruments for log/speed and depth and the for all new instruments is above my budget.

What I would like thoughts/experience on is (1) I can't work out what is the best option (cost primarily) for combined instruments and the dual helm repeaters. (2) What is the most suitable spec (a) wind, gps, depth & speed or (b) wind, gps and depth (with speed from gps only).

What have others done? I'd appreciate any wisdom/experience to help me make the best/most cost effective choice.


Thanks & Regards.
 
Last edited:
My take on instruments is "Do you want them cheap, or do you want them reliable?" There have been plenty of threads on here about certain masthead wind units.

My own boat will soon need new instruments because the 14 year old LCD screens on the VDO Logic instruments are beginning to fail. I really would like to be able to replace them with exactly the same, because they are excellent instruments, and very reliable. I just renewed the masthead wind instrument bearings this year at a cost of £3.50. Not bad after all that time. Unfortunately my system is no longer available.

Looking to the future I think NMEA2000 is the way to go which probably means spending about £1,000 on a B&G Triton starter pack with the transducers and a single instrument, plus £400 a pop for extra displays. The good thing is that the displays will show all types of data including Log/depth, wind and GPS. The alternative is Garmin GMI 10 instruments which also support NMEA 0183 connections.

I do not think that having speed from the GPS only is a good option for a sailing vessel, as you want to know your speed through the water, not just over ground, especially in tidal waters..
 
I agree that to help future proof anything you install it would be well worth considering putting in NMEA2000 instruments. This will make repeating information at both your helming positions very straight forward, the downside being the cost but in my view that would be well worth it and is what I’d do.

There are several NMEA2000 instruments available, Gamin’s GMI 10 although being the slightly older of the NMEA2000 capable instruments, it is still a very capable instrument.

Transducers
GWS 10 (Masthead wind speed / direction)
DST800 (Log/Depth/Temperature Transducer combined)

Pilot House
GMI 10 Instrument Display x2

Outside Helm
This is perhaps where your older model chartplotter may hold you back a little however you can still use this if you add an NMEA 2000 interface device to it such as the Actisense NGW-1 which can convert NMEA2000 data back to the NMEA0183 required by the chartpotter, this would give you all the depth/log information however I’m unsure about the wind speed/direction data as the manual for the chartplotter doesn’t show that its capable of receiving that information via NMEA0183.

I would consider looking for a NMEA2000 capable chartplotter if possible which is more likely to display the wind information although beware the screen size may be a limiting factor here in displaying all the information you want simultaneously if its too small.

Costings
£752.62 Garmin GMI10 Sailpack Instrument System (includes 1x GMI10, 1x GWS10 and 1x DST800)
£337.50 Additional GMI 10
£101.68 Actisense NGW-1 NMEA0183 to NMEA2000 Gateway (or put this £100 towards a new plotter)

Total: £1191.80
(Prices taken from www.yachtbits.com but you may be able to do better if you hunt around, no connection etc.)

Perhaps not the cost cutting solution you are looking for but it’s what I’d do in your situation.

Your other option is to simply replace your faulty log for £25 from http://www.nasamarine.com/proddetail.php?prod=12_Impellor_unit
 
You can repeat your cockpit instruments onto a netbook or iPad by having a Serial or USB input from your NMEA data stream. Actisense do a good little unit.
Then you only need freeware such as Polar Navy to display all NMEA data on screen down below.
 
SJF said:
I agree that to help future proof anything you install it would be well worth considering putting in NMEA2000 instruments. This will make repeating information at both your helming positions very straight forward, the downside being the cost but in my view that would be well worth it and is what I’d do.

There are several NMEA2000 instruments available, Gamin’s GMI 10 although being the slightly older of the NMEA2000 capable instruments, it is still a very capable instrument.

Transducers
GWS 10 (Masthead wind speed / direction)
DST800 (Log/Depth/Temperature Transducer combined)

Pilot House
GMI 10 Instrument Display x2

Outside Helm
This is perhaps where your older model chartplotter may hold you back a little however you can still use this if you add an NMEA 2000 interface device to it such as the Actisense NGW-1 which can convert NMEA2000 data back to the NMEA0183 required by the chartpotter, this would give you all the depth/log information however I’m unsure about the wind speed/direction data as the manual for the chartplotter doesn’t show that its capable of receiving that information via NMEA0183.

I would consider looking for a NMEA2000 capable chartplotter if possible which is more likely to display the wind information although beware the screen size may be a limiting factor here in displaying all the information you want simultaneously if its too small.

Costings
£752.62 Garmin GMI10 Sailpack Instrument System (includes 1x GMI10, 1x GWS10 and 1x DST800)
£337.50 Additional GMI 10
£101.68 Actisense NGW-1 NMEA0183 to NMEA2000 Gateway (or put this £100 towards a new plotter)

Total: £1191.80
(Prices taken from www.yachtbits.com but you may be able to do better if you hunt around, no connection etc.)

Perhaps not the cost cutting solution you are looking for but it’s what I’d do in your situation.

Your other option is to simply replace your faulty log for £25 from http://www.nasamarine.com/proddetail.php?prod=12_Impellor_unit
Click to expand...

On the Garmin system above you may not need the Actisense gateway, because the GMI instruments have an NMEA 0183 input.
 
FullCircle said:
You can repeat your cockpit instruments onto a netbook or iPad by having a Serial or USB input from your NMEA data stream. Actisense do a good little unit.
Then you only need freeware such as Polar Navy to display all NMEA data on screen down below.
Click to expand...

Ears prick up, right, log, depth, plotter , ais all on nmae what not, IPad down stairs, how does your system work.

Diagrams and simple explanation... Bear of very little brain.

If I can get this to work I can make my second plotter redundant, praps sell it to Zagato and put him out of his agony of indecision.:)
 
I think the key here is Nmea, in either the older 0183 or newer 2000 flavour..if you have Nmea from your instrument s (GPS, log, wind etc) then it can be displayed on any Nmea multifunctional device that has a way of receiving data, be it an dedicated repeater instrument, an exisiting instrument that has the capability, a chart plotter, a pc with the correct software, or an iPad with a Nmea wireless gateway.

In all of the above cases it is fairly straightforward, however there are a few buts

NASA instruments don't send Nmea

You can only have 1 talker, you may need to multiplex the talker streams together

Some manufacturers have their own communications language, seatalk springs to mind, hey are normally Nmea capable but may require another box.

Nmea is grey but you may have to be selective when choosing your instruments first off to allow cheaper Nmea additions

As example I have the following all talking to each other with data shared between them which can e displayed on any device


Raymarine autopilot
Pc with seapro performance
iPad with numerous sailing apps and instrument repeaters
Nmea wireless bridge
Tacktick wireless bridge/ Nmea multiplexer
Tacktick 2 x mast displays
Tacktick 2 x single line display
Raymarine st290 graphic repeater
Aid
Dsc radio

On all of the above the info is shared and available on any device
 
SJF et all thanks - your comments are much appreciated.

I like the look of the Garmin as the single display option will fit neatly into the spaces available and give all the data I need - I had considered this system earlier but I'm just shocked at the cost (defacto boat refurb mode for me:)). But as someone mostly baffled by instruments/signals it is good to have it confirmed that it is the right system before possibly installing it.


Regarding the garmin system talking to the plotter - can someone spell out what this gives me (AIS?)? My sailing is weekend Solent harbour/beech hopping - nothing too fancy. I think that wind strength/direction, depth & speed on the instrument along with plotter and vhf/dsc talking seperatly would suit my needs (although not cutting edge) or am I missing something?

I'll have a look around for the best prices/offers on the Garmin GMI10 Sailpack (+ seperate GMI10) but is there any other tri-data or dual display alternatives that I should consider that might also be better or comparable on cost?

Once again - Thanks all.
 
Gents,

Just to update the thread - I did buy and install the GMI10 Sail pack, additional GMI10 and Actisense as suggested to work with my NMEA 0183 plotter and I also bought a new lowrance DSC VHF.
My first chance to test everything together was last week as the mast has just been stepped and all parts talked to each other as they should.
I'm now looking forward to using it in earnest in the coming season.

Once again - thanks for the help.
 
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