Instruction in splicing wire rope standing rigging?

[ps02210]

Hello,

I'm preparing to replace all of the standing rigging on my boat (a '79 Westerly Berwick ketch) with the anticipation of an Atlantic crossing in the next year or two, and then, who knows, maybe to the Pacific.

I am planning on going with 7x7 spliced stainless, rather than modern fittings, to keep things simple, so that I can better monitor the condition of the rigging and minimize surprises, as well as be more self sufficient with the necessary skills, tools and materials for repairs as needed.

I am interested to know of any workshops or other form of hands-on training for splicing wire rope rigging, anywhere in the East or Southeast UK.

I'm confident I could develop the necessary competence simply using books and DVDs, as I have done for numerous other skills, but nothing beats hands-on training from an expert, and given the importance of doing the standing rigging right, I'd greatly appreciate my initial work having the brutal scrutiny of an expert.

Recommendations?

 

[DownWest]

Brion Toss's the 'Riggers Apprentice' everything you need to know. Check Amazon.
A

 

[pvb]

I am planning on going with 7x7 spliced stainless, rather than modern fittings, to keep things simple, so that I can better monitor the condition of the rigging and minimize surprises, as well as be more self sufficient with the necessary skills, tools and materials for repairs as needed.

The self-sufficiency thing is laudable, but I wouldn't want 7x7 standing rigging. Why not stick with 1x19 but use StaLok or Norseman terminals? You can fit these yourself, and they are re-usable. I think this would give an infinitely superior result if you're intent on some DIY.

The better choice would be professionally-swaged fittings. The loads on the rigging of a Berwick ketch aren't great (I claim some knowledge, having owned a Pentland ketch), and I wouldn't expect new rigging to present you with surprises, even on a long trip.

 

[ps02210]

Brion Toss's the 'Riggers Apprentice' everything you need to know. Check Amazon.
A

Already have it. Looking for hands-on instruction and critique.

Would rather have an expert say "not like that" than find out in the middle of the ocean that I got it wrong... (not that I have any difficulty learning from books, etc.)

 

[ps02210]

The self-sufficiency thing is laudable, but I wouldn't want 7x7 standing rigging. Why not stick with 1x19 but use StaLok or Norseman terminals? You can fit these yourself, and they are re-usable. I think this would give an infinitely superior result if you're intent on some DIY.

The better choice would be professionally-swaged fittings. The loads on the rigging of a Berwick ketch aren't great (I claim some knowledge, having owned a Pentland ketch), and I wouldn't expect new rigging to present you with surprises, even on a long trip.

I am leaning towards spliced eyes rather than either swaged or mechanical fittings so that I can see what's happening with the rigging. Yes, I know Norseman and some others can be disassembled and inspected, but I'd prefer to have the peace of mind not worrying about unseen surprise failures in "the middle of nowhere".

 

[ps02210]

With appreciation and respect to those responding, I really am not looking to discuss the pros and cons of swaged versus mechanical versus splices. I've been researching this for over a year and am pretty set in my conclusions.

I'm looking for any workshops or other forms of training in traditional wire rope splicing, and would appreciate responses limited to recommendations of such.

Thanks.

 

[prv]

The self-sufficiency thing is laudable, but I wouldn't want 7x7 standing rigging.

Why not? What is the supposed disadvantage? My rigging is 7x7 because it's formed into eyes at each end (crimped rather than spliced though) and 1x19 would "birdcage" on the tight bends.

I defer to the OP's research and conclusions (I'd probably lean the same way) but wonder whether galvanised wire is worth considering? Or perhaps my gaffer / square rig leanings are going too far

Pete

 

[snooks]

With appreciation and respect to those responding, I really am not looking to discuss the pros and cons of swaged versus mechanical versus splices. I've been researching this for over a year and am pretty set in my conclusions.

Just because you know exactly what you want, it doesn't mean your going to get it on the forum

 

[sarabande]

stainless is a brute to splice, and you can get work-hardening, and consequent reduction in strength and flexibility.

I'd also go for galvanised, as cheaper, global availability, easier to spot deterioration, easier to form eyes / splices, and can be protected with gloopy oils.

I was taught wirework as a cadet, and the pass test was to longsplice a sweeper wire (the one with the counter-spun wire so that the wire acted as a saw). A bloody experience !

 

[ps02210]

Just because you know exactly what you want, it doesn't mean your going to get it on the forum

True, though I'd prefer to either get what I ask for or then nothing, rather than a long digression ;-)

 

[ps02210]

stainless is a brute to splice, and you can get work-hardening, and consequent reduction in strength and flexibility.

I'd also go for galvanised, as cheaper, global availability, easier to spot deterioration, easier to form eyes / splices, and can be protected with gloopy oils.

I was taught wirework as a cadet, and the pass test was to longsplice a sweeper wire (the one with the counter-spun wire so that the wire acted as a saw). A bloody experience !

I was not quite on the fence about galvanized vs. stainless, but standing pretty close to the fence on the side of stainless. Wasn't sure I wanted the extra regular maintenance required for galvanized, and was not planning to serve the rigging (it's not an old wooden boat, and served rigging would IMO look out of place).

How much of a bother is the regular dressing with, I assume boiled linseed oil, or are there reasonably economical modern dressings that would be easier to apply and perhaps even more effective?

 

[Conachair]

With appreciation and respect to those responding, I really am not looking to discuss the pros and cons of swaged versus mechanical versus splices.

King canute was in with more of a chance

Only place I've ever seen it done was rope and marine services in east london. Very doubtful if they could help you but might be worth a brief email to ask if they know anyone who teaches.

good luck!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/squarerigger/486904997/in/set-72157600183894973/#/

 

[sarabande]

no need to protect galavanised with oils - I have just seen the type of boat (my mistake !). Dressing GW is for wire with a hemp core usually.

 

[pugwash60]

I'd also avoid stainless, it's horrible to work and easy to damage. I was taught splicing by the 'tindal' or bosuns mate on a Clan Line ship. There are tricks to getting it to 'go' nicely, try to find a rigger / seaman to teach and show you, it's not complicated but it's easy to get a splice that is correct in the sense of which wire is going under what, but it's all mucked up and full of kinks and even when dressed parcelled and served doesn't look great. (The trick is to go up the wire a good bit, following the one you are going to go under and winding the one you are working around the wire, do the tuck then work it back down again). Don't force the wire, it should want to go where you are putting it. Also on rigging you don't need to bother too much with locking tucks, you can use a liverpool splice which is tidier as it isn't going to spin and undo, so, if you want, you can ignore the locking splices in the EDH etc. textbooks. A vice makes it easier to start with, once you are competent you won't need it so much. I never really got good at it, my jobs looked like they'd been done by eeyore (although my they would work) but I know others who are tidier workers who make a beautiful job.

 

[prv]

was not planning to serve the rigging (it's not an old wooden boat, and served rigging would IMO look out of place).

Agreed. It also adds windage. Much as I rather enjoy doing it, I'm not sure I would choose to even on an old gaffer. On a square rigger is another matter - there's so much gubbins aloft you can barely see through the rig, and you ain't going to be going to windward whatever you do.

How much of a bother is the regular dressing with, I assume boiled linseed oil, or are there reasonably economical modern dressings that would be easier to apply and perhaps even more effective?

The only dressing I know on bare wire is Rocol, but that's for wire running rigging (we serve all the standing) and is a bit messy to touch. Boiled linseed is traditional, alongside various local concoctions of varying efficacy, but there may very well be longlasting modern treatments available now. There are lots of non-yachty uses for steel wire, and its commercial users are not going to be interested in pottering around with oily rags all the time.

Pete

 

[Ubergeekian]

How much of a bother is the regular dressing with, I assume boiled linseed oil, or are there reasonably economical modern dressings that would be easier to apply and perhaps even more effective?

Could we keep this to splicing methods for stainless, please, and avoid these unnecessary digressions?

Thank you.

 

[ps02210]

Could we keep this to splicing methods for stainless, please, and avoid these unnecessary digressions?

Thank you.

Heh heh... ;-)

I believe an OP has the right to digress his/her own thread however he/she likes ;-)

 

[lw395]

I suspect insurance companies would be happier with either swaged or Norseman fittings.
I have an ex-Merchant Navy friend who can splice stainless, but it is a very difficult thing to do perfectly. I suspect you may need to increase the wire size to get the same strength as a talurit. Modern stainless wire is not really made with ease of splicing in mind, best check with the wire manufacturer that the wire is suitable.
Vectran is a lot easier!

 

[ps02210]

I suspect insurance companies would be happier with either swaged or Norseman fittings.

The boat is and will remain self insured, and in any case, I value my own peace of mind in the middle of the ocean far above any insurance agency's peace of mind ;-)

I have an ex-Merchant Navy friend who can splice stainless, but it is a very difficult thing to do perfectly. I suspect you may need to increase the wire size to get the same strength as a talurit. Modern stainless wire is not really made with ease of splicing in mind, best check with the wire manufacturer that the wire is suitable.
Vectran is a lot easier!

Looks like I will go with galvanized. Had wanted to avoid the extra maintenance, and was close to the fence on galvanized vs SS anyway, and recent comments and some additional research have moved me to the other side of the fence on that point.

Still strongly convinced to go with spliced eyes, so I can easily and frequently keep an eye on the rigging over time.

 

[ps02210]

Regarding the original inquiry, looks like Nigel at TS Rigging in Maldon will be providing me some hands-on training at their workshop sometime in the coming months.

Thanks for everyone's input, comments, etc.

Cheers.