Instead of red parachute flares

Aeolus

Aeolus

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Any thoughts on the feasibility of attaching an electronic laser flare to a kite to use in place of a rocket flare? Or to be used once I've fired all my rocket flares and no one has spotted them.

E.g. products such as:
https://www.kiteworld.co.uk/acatalog/HQ-Delta-Hawk.html and
https://jimmygreen.com/electronic-flares/78676-rescueme-edf1-led-flare

The kite would be flown with, say, 100 metres of cord, attached to the boat. This kite is rated up to winds of 40mph but I've found references on the web to people flying it in 50-60mph winds, which is more than I am likely ever to need.

It would be visible for much longer than a pyrotechnic flare, albeit not as bright.

I acknowledge it wouldn't work at all if the boat was static and there was no wind. But no solution is perfect!

Happy to be told (kindly) that it's a stupid idea, if indeed it is.
 
Aeolus said:
The kite would be flown with, say, 100 metres of cord, attached to the boat. This kite is rated up to winds of 40mph but I've found references on the web to people flying it in 50-60mph winds, which is more than I am likely ever to need.
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I have a USAAF kite, supplied with the liferaft of WW2 bombers to lift an aerial. I also have the copper aerial for it. Not something to use in a thunderstorm ...
 
The solution to your problem is: more rockets!
It might work, but don't kites need your undivided attention to fly, when you might be a bit preoccupied with other things?
 
JumbleDuck said:
I have a USAAF kite, supplied with the liferaft of WW2 bombers to lift an aerial. I also have the copper aerial for it. Not something to use in a thunderstorm ...
Click to expand...

A fantastic thing to have, does it work, how long is it? I can see that being a very useful gadget for ditched aircrew in the Pacific, do you know any more details about the radio itself?
 
Issues may include:
- 100m of cord will only get you a quarter of the height of a parachute flare
- Sailors know (or should be able to guess) what a parachute flare looks like. A bright red light on a kite could be mistaken for a helicopter or the top of Mirabella V's mast
 
I don't really need a kite wrapped around my rig when I already have an emergency to deal with, but as someone who abhors the silly explosive relics, the laser flare does look appealing. Putting it up on a halyard might extend its visible range in a more sensible way than the kite. For anything more, an EPIRB is probably paid off within a few years of not buying (and disposing of) explosive relics.
 
Ohlin Karcher said:
It might work, but don't kites need your undivided attention to fly, when you might be a bit preoccupied with other things?
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No a traditional box kit will fly itself.

I too had an old Air Force one designed to lift an antenna, though never used it in anger.
 
SOLAS parachute flares peak out at 1000 ft or say 300 metres. Kites usually fly at about 45 degrees so 100m of line will see them getting not much higher than 50m or one sixth of the height of a parachute flare. Also you’ve got to launch your kite and manage it in the air, a non trivial task in much more than 15 knots of wind. I know which I’d prefer to use.
On the other hand, hoisting an LED distress beacon up the mast makes sense, easy to do, long lasting and will increase the range it’s visible from considerably.
 
So it seems clear that in extremis there is no substitute for pyrotechnics despite the silly emotional rhetoric about 'relics'.

Flares are no more 'relics' than liferafts or lifejackets are, indeed they are an irreplaceable part of a vessel's SAR inventory.

SAR relics are box kites intended to hoist an antenna for a short wave radio set (a relic) in an air-dropped lifeboat (yet another relic).
Unless they are used on land for the enjoyment of kids of all ages. I had one as a kid and had endless fun with it, though a powerful brute to handle in much wind.
 
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duncan99210 said:
SOLAS parachute flares peak out at 1000 ft or say 300 metres. Kites usually fly at about 45 degrees so 100m of line will see them getting not much higher than 50m or one sixth of the height of a parachute flare. Also you’ve got to launch your kite and manage it in the air, a non trivial task in much more than 15 knots of wind. I know which I’d prefer to use.
On the other hand, hoisting an LED distress beacon up the mast makes sense, easy to do, long lasting and will increase the range it’s visible from considerably.
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Mmm, unless you are dismasted.

To the OP - stick with pyros. And buy more
 
What you really need is to launch a drone, which will fly towards the nearest AIS target on its inboard receiver, and which will release a series of flares, thus indicating the direction of the casualty, ie you.
 
I have moved over to electronic flares after a lot of thought.

I am impressed with the current crop of electronic flares. The visibility to me seems very good, and of course they last for a long time.

Whilst I accept a ballistic parachute flare gets the signal well into the air I am not totally convinced it is necessary these days as long as you have other reliable means of communication. After all the flare is hopefully for pinpoint location of your vessel, the broad initial location will be down to your GPS co-ordinates which hopefully you have transmitted by one means or another and may bring SandR to within less than a few miles, and hopefully much better.

My thoughts are that within that range an electronic flare will be more than adequate and a bright red flashing strobe at sea level operating for up to 30 minutes will be equally as effective.

Being a pilot as well as a sailor, I can also say that a bright flashing strobe really grabs your attention even from a few thousand feet, never mind low level.
 
Aeolus said:
Any thoughts on the feasibility of attaching an electronic laser flare to a kite to use in place of a rocket flare? . . .

The kite would be flown with, say, 100 metres of cord, attached to the boat. This kite is rated up to winds of 40mph but I've found references on the web to people flying it in 50-60mph winds, which is more than I am likely ever to need. . .
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1) Aren't lasers highly directional? How visible will they be, even at height?
2) How high will the kite fly in very light or no wind?

ip485 said:
Whilst I accept a ballistic parachute flare gets the signal well into the air I am not totally convinced it is necessary these days as long as you have other reliable means of communication. After all the flare is hopefully for pinpoint location of your vessel, the broad initial location will be down to your GPS co-ordinates which hopefully you have transmitted by one means or another and may bring SandR to within less than a few miles, and hopefully much better.

My thoughts are that within that range an electronic flare will be more than adequate and a bright red flashing strobe at sea level operating for up to 30 minutes will be equally as effective.
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3) But your GPS co-ordinates will be dealt with by someone at great distances, and won't result in immediate assistance from vessels nearby. VHF depends on your battery and aerial still working and any vessels nearby listening.

4) Apart from the directional query raised above, how far will a light at sea level visible for?

I am not knocking other potential methods, but I think that pyrotechnic flares have a lot going for them which is hard to replicate.
 
laika said:
- 100m of cord will only get you a quarter of the height of a parachute flare
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duncan99210 said:
SOLAS parachute flares peak out at 1000 ft or say 300 metres. Kites usually fly at about 45 degrees so 100m of line will see them getting not much higher than 50m or one sixth of the height of a parachute flare.
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If it wasn't all just a back-of-the-fag-packet guesstimate anyway I'd say that pythagoras would slightly favour the former :)
 
"3) But your GPS co-ordinates will be dealt with by someone at great distances, and won't result in immediate assistance from vessels nearby. VHF depends on your battery and aerial still working and any vessels nearby listening.

4) Apart from the directional query raised above, how far will a light at sea level visible for?

I am not knocking other potential methods, but I think that pyrotechnic flares have a lot going for them which is hard to replicate. "

That is all true.

I have a plumbed in Sat Phone as well as handheld and the same for VHF, the hand held being water "proof". I figure therefore on the vessel I should be able to maintain good communication as much as setting off a parachute flare from the deck, and chuck the handheld bits in the grab bag with a load of spare batteries if its sinking beneath me or on fire. I have also the EPRIB and "hand" held IAS beacoons around my neck so I would use those as well. I fully understand not everyone will.

As to distance, of course you are abosolutely correct. As I say, I would hope the other means would bring the rescuers in close enough to see the strobe.
 
Ohlin Karcher said:
A fantastic thing to have, does it work, how long is it? I can see that being a very useful gadget for ditched aircrew in the Pacific, do you know any more details about the radio itself?
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I'm afraid I know no more than I can glean from looking at it. If you want one, there are a few on eBay at around £70. For example, 153267715653, or search "(raf, usaaf) kite"

Elecglitch said:
No a traditional box kit will fly itself.

I too had an old Air Force one designed to lift an antenna, though never used it in anger.
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Mine's a box kite too. When I was a child I could run into strong winds while holding onto the frame and take giants leaps. Those babies don't half lift.
 
Well here in West Oz EPIRB carriage is mandatory for ocean sailing ie beyond 4nm of shore. Carriage of flares is also mandatory. We ahve seen many rescues successfully completed and initiated by EPIRB virtually none by rocket flare. So if I did have the choice I would go for EPIRB in lieu of rocket flares. However hand held smoke will aid in final recovery. ol'will
 
William_H said:
Well here in West Oz EPIRB carriage is mandatory for ocean sailing ie beyond 4nm of shore. Carriage of flares is also mandatory. We ahve seen many rescues successfully completed and initiated by EPIRB virtually none by rocket flare. So if I did have the choice I would go for EPIRB in lieu of rocket flares. However hand held smoke will aid in final recovery. ol'will
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"Ocean sailing is beyond 4nm of shore" ?
Is that some bizarre local safety legislation ol'will? To English ears it sounds very odd.
4M is just the kind of distance when flares would be very visible, and at 4M offshore, a sinking sailor be rescued before an EPIRB distress had even been processed through the system..
 
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