Gunfleet
New member
I have acquired a boat with a masthead rig, single backsay, rolling genoa and inner forestay. Should the inner forestay (which also goes to the masthead) remain rigged all the time? How tight should it be?
inner forestay
- Thread starter Gunfleet
- Start date
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Guest
Guest
How will you tack the roller genoa if it's rigged all the time?
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Check again. I doubt it goes all the way to the masthead, otherwise it will interfere with hoisting and rolling the genny. In all probabllity its a foot or two below the top of the mast.
Mostly, inner forestays are rigged temporarily, when needed for a smaller jib. Yours may differ, and it's worth asking a local rigger to have a shufti if you've any doubts.
Mostly, inner forestays are rigged temporarily, when needed for a smaller jib. Yours may differ, and it's worth asking a local rigger to have a shufti if you've any doubts.
Gunfleet
New member
Well that's exactly what I wondered, Simon. Roll it, then pull it out again? The inner forestay (which by the way does indeed start very near the mast head, not more than 6 inches below) looks as if it's for the storm jib. But it's quite a substantial fitting - not the sort of thing you could imagine yourself rigging in any sort of a seaway, especially one where you would next be needing the storm jib. I've never even been on a boat with one before, let alone sailed with one, hence my question. Thanks for the replies to you both
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
John,
Usually, if the inner forestay is meant to be rigged temporarily you'll find a fairly meaty fitting with an over-centre lever action somewhere, which you can shackle on to allow you to rig it with loads of tension in it. If it's more permanent then it'll be fitted with something like a bottlescrew on a toggle and fork that you won't want to take off very often.
But, as always, your mileage may vary.
What's the boat, BTW?
Usually, if the inner forestay is meant to be rigged temporarily you'll find a fairly meaty fitting with an over-centre lever action somewhere, which you can shackle on to allow you to rig it with loads of tension in it. If it's more permanent then it'll be fitted with something like a bottlescrew on a toggle and fork that you won't want to take off very often.
But, as always, your mileage may vary.
What's the boat, BTW?
bedouin
Well-known member
If it comes that close to the mast then it is almost certainly intended to be rigged only when you need it to set a storm jib. Check the fixing on the foredeck - there ought to be a simple/quick way to fix and tension it. When not in use it should be disconnected from the deck and lead to the foot of the mast or one of the chainplates
Gunfleet
New member
Ken,
Thanks, this is a big clue because it does indeed have a big fitting with a lever on it. My mind was just boggled by the idea of wiggling the toggle into place on a pitching foredeck just prior to hoisting a storm jib! The vessel is a Nicholson 26, not entirely unrelated in shape and form to a Twister.
Thanks, this is a big clue because it does indeed have a big fitting with a lever on it. My mind was just boggled by the idea of wiggling the toggle into place on a pitching foredeck just prior to hoisting a storm jib! The vessel is a Nicholson 26, not entirely unrelated in shape and form to a Twister.
peterk
New member
hi john,
what you've got there is a great set-up,
not only for a storm jib
but for sailing wing-on-wing
say with a
genoa and a working jib
- when you can't or won't use a spinnaker
when broad reaching or running.
have fun!
...peter
www.juprowa.com/kittel
what you've got there is a great set-up,
not only for a storm jib
but for sailing wing-on-wing
say with a
genoa and a working jib
- when you can't or won't use a spinnaker
when broad reaching or running.
have fun!
...peter
www.juprowa.com/kittel
halcyon
Well-known member
Sounds like you have the rig we are planning for the Halcyon, fitting a roller headsail, but keeping the rigable forestay, after all have 6 headsails, not throwing them away.
The plan being to fit a jib on the roller, then hank on the genoa for light wind, storm jib for heavy, or two for downwind. Have to do some testing this summer, as we have a flat cut reefing genoa to try, previous owners reccon they carried it up to a 6 on trans-Atlantic runs, interested to see what it's like ?, any one used one.
Brian
The plan being to fit a jib on the roller, then hank on the genoa for light wind, storm jib for heavy, or two for downwind. Have to do some testing this summer, as we have a flat cut reefing genoa to try, previous owners reccon they carried it up to a 6 on trans-Atlantic runs, interested to see what it's like ?, any one used one.
Brian
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Guest
Guest
Was your boat formerly either a sailing school yacht or "small commercial vessel"? Inner forestay for fitting storm jibs was (is?) a requirement for coded yachts with roller gennys. Most owners I have spoken to had it fitted to satisfy the Code with no intention of using it! They kept it firmly tied down to the foot of the mast.
Jeremy_W
New member
I'm surprised they never used it. I was crewing a yacht last weekend in the Bristol Channel in Force 7/8 and the system was a godsend, allowing us to set a flat cut working jib, with its clew near the deck, rather than a baggy half-rolled genny half way up the forestay.
halcyon
Well-known member
Seems were going the right direction.
Anyone know reefing genoa's ?
Brian
Anyone know reefing genoa's ?
Brian
kodiak
New member
We have a Westerly Fulmar which when we bought her had the components for an inner forestay on board. Setting it up has its problems. The stay is fixed with an over-centre hook/lever to a deck fitting this works well, but when not in use the stay was too long to fix down to mast foot or chainplate. When we replaced the standing riggig we had the stay shortened by a foot and a separate wire strop is shackeled on when the stay is to be used.
The other problem is in a sea, the inner stay with a sail hanked on takes all the tension off the main forestay which now swings around quite alarmingly with the rolled up genoa.
The other problem is in a sea, the inner stay with a sail hanked on takes all the tension off the main forestay which now swings around quite alarmingly with the rolled up genoa.
jamesjermain
Active member
Yes...
Yes, I had one on my Sonata. It was very useful on a couple occasions but I got very wet changing the tack cringle and re-reeving the sheets 'cos, with 15 stone (then) on the bows, a Sonata tends to bury her nose. However, it worked and the sail set well. Our wardrobe was a big genny, and the working jib with a reef which took it down to No 4 jib size - bigger than a storm jib but with much better drive. This gave us enough flexibility for all our needs.
The sail was heavily built and tripple stitched. In the sort of conditions a Sonata is sailed in, it was pretty well bullet proof. The only problem was what to do with the bunt of sail below the reefing points. There were no brailing cringles or reef points. We just let it flap, although, in practice, it didn't flap very much - even in Force 6, which we called a Sonata gale.
JJ
Yes, I had one on my Sonata. It was very useful on a couple occasions but I got very wet changing the tack cringle and re-reeving the sheets 'cos, with 15 stone (then) on the bows, a Sonata tends to bury her nose. However, it worked and the sail set well. Our wardrobe was a big genny, and the working jib with a reef which took it down to No 4 jib size - bigger than a storm jib but with much better drive. This gave us enough flexibility for all our needs.
The sail was heavily built and tripple stitched. In the sort of conditions a Sonata is sailed in, it was pretty well bullet proof. The only problem was what to do with the bunt of sail below the reefing points. There were no brailing cringles or reef points. We just let it flap, although, in practice, it didn't flap very much - even in Force 6, which we called a Sonata gale.
JJ
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Guest
Guest
Agreed that fitting one in a seaway can prove hasslesome. If doing a long trip we rig ours beforehand, and hank the No.4 genoa to it stowed on deck complete with sheets rigged, especially if there seems any likelihood of bad weather. If you're only going to tack once every few hours or more, it's no great trouble to roll the genoa away just for the tack. If bad weather hits, just furl the roller genoa away, attach the No.2 genoa halyard to the small genny/jib, cast off the lashings, and haul away.
If you've set off without rigging the inner forestay and bad weather occurs unexpectedly, try heaving to while you rig it.
One very important point to bear in mind is that the sheeting point for a jib rigged on the inner forestay is going to be completely different from the roller genoa.
Also, consider how you're going to get a tight luff on the hanked on jib/genoa, otherwise you lose half the point of setting it in the first place. We solved that by making the No.2 halyard a Spectra one. That system works excellently.
If you've set off without rigging the inner forestay and bad weather occurs unexpectedly, try heaving to while you rig it.
One very important point to bear in mind is that the sheeting point for a jib rigged on the inner forestay is going to be completely different from the roller genoa.
Also, consider how you're going to get a tight luff on the hanked on jib/genoa, otherwise you lose half the point of setting it in the first place. We solved that by making the No.2 halyard a Spectra one. That system works excellently.
Jeremy_W
New member
".... Also, consider how you're going to get a tight luff on the hanked on jib/genoa, otherwise you lose half the point of setting it in the first place".
================================
One way [if you're short of halyards leading to winches] is to pull up the jib by hand, cleat it off then use a tackle to haul the clew down to the deck. That works fine.
================================
One way [if you're short of halyards leading to winches] is to pull up the jib by hand, cleat it off then use a tackle to haul the clew down to the deck. That works fine.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Yes...
Without wishing to appear to be "swinging the lamp" I would like to recount my experience in the Med in what RAF Luqa recorded as Force 10 - 11 for 3 days! We were a 45' gaff schooner and the reefing fore stays'l was on a self tacking boom. When I went forward with another crew to put in the reef we were shoulder to shoulder and could not hear each other's shouts the noise was so loud. The rig worked well and we stayed hove to under just that one tiny piece of sail for 36 hours. It was December and we calculated that it would be a week before leeway fetched us up on the African coast.
The point is that the equivalent to an inner forestay on any cutter rig is invaluable.
Without wishing to appear to be "swinging the lamp" I would like to recount my experience in the Med in what RAF Luqa recorded as Force 10 - 11 for 3 days! We were a 45' gaff schooner and the reefing fore stays'l was on a self tacking boom. When I went forward with another crew to put in the reef we were shoulder to shoulder and could not hear each other's shouts the noise was so loud. The rig worked well and we stayed hove to under just that one tiny piece of sail for 36 hours. It was December and we calculated that it would be a week before leeway fetched us up on the African coast.
The point is that the equivalent to an inner forestay on any cutter rig is invaluable.
incognito
N/A
If I may add to this...
The inner forestay does NOT require tension. It is intended as a guide to prevent having a flying jib (working or storm). The luff of the staysail needs all the tension it can get, via the halyard. My storm jib has a kevlar tape luff rated to multi-tons, to allow for nasty shock loads on top of as much luff tension as I can get. (Just contrast flying a loose-luffed storm jib on a super-tight forestay vs a supertight luff on a floppy forestay !!!!!).
When my inner forestay broke with the working jib up recently, my only worry was how to get the jib down if things went on brewing!! The fact that the forestay (or GUIDE) had broken did nothing to spoil the jib, but I didn't want the luff flying off downwind as I loosed the halyard - I was able to resecure the stay with nothing more than a rolling hitch and later took the staysail down pussycat like.
The stay is usually fitted with a highfield lever, which is simply intended to enable the easy uncoupling from its parking spot alongside the shrouds and attachment to the foredeck eye. There may be, as in my case, a short steel pennant to enable matching of the lengths.
We put up the working jib when expecting >5, then sail cutter-rigged with as much genoa as appropriate. Eventually, if the breeze gets up to 6ish, we can roll the genoa away completely. (This anticipation of weather is not solely required in relation to putting this staysail up - who amongst us waits for serious deterioration before reefing the main?) Put out some genoa, drop the working jib and heave-to to enable putting up the storm jib when you hit the appropriate level for your boat, we can do this on our 36ft in a F7/8.
When flying both working jib and some/all genoa (cutter rigged) you should position a foredeck hand in the gap, to whip the genoa through (with his back to the stemhead).
The inner forestay does NOT require tension. It is intended as a guide to prevent having a flying jib (working or storm). The luff of the staysail needs all the tension it can get, via the halyard. My storm jib has a kevlar tape luff rated to multi-tons, to allow for nasty shock loads on top of as much luff tension as I can get. (Just contrast flying a loose-luffed storm jib on a super-tight forestay vs a supertight luff on a floppy forestay !!!!!).
When my inner forestay broke with the working jib up recently, my only worry was how to get the jib down if things went on brewing!! The fact that the forestay (or GUIDE) had broken did nothing to spoil the jib, but I didn't want the luff flying off downwind as I loosed the halyard - I was able to resecure the stay with nothing more than a rolling hitch and later took the staysail down pussycat like.
The stay is usually fitted with a highfield lever, which is simply intended to enable the easy uncoupling from its parking spot alongside the shrouds and attachment to the foredeck eye. There may be, as in my case, a short steel pennant to enable matching of the lengths.
We put up the working jib when expecting >5, then sail cutter-rigged with as much genoa as appropriate. Eventually, if the breeze gets up to 6ish, we can roll the genoa away completely. (This anticipation of weather is not solely required in relation to putting this staysail up - who amongst us waits for serious deterioration before reefing the main?) Put out some genoa, drop the working jib and heave-to to enable putting up the storm jib when you hit the appropriate level for your boat, we can do this on our 36ft in a F7/8.
When flying both working jib and some/all genoa (cutter rigged) you should position a foredeck hand in the gap, to whip the genoa through (with his back to the stemhead).
Gunfleet
New member
He'd have to be a very slim 'foredeck hand' on my boat, since the forestay and inner forestay are mounted about 9 inches apart on the foredeck.
incognito
N/A
Hmmm... yes... well... it sounds like roll up and roll out... but at least it must be a smaller genoa and thus not quite so hard work?
