Inflation.

[Povremeni pomorac]

Ah - so you realise that you were being economical with the truth when saying 1% - you standing for PM

I didn't see any public outrage - any evidence for that statement.

I think the public are mindful of the nurses but in an environment where many have not had a pay rise for years they are perhaps not so happy to have their taxes put up signficantly to fund it when they themselves are facing the same cost of living squeeze.

WHich is fine- theoretically, till they find themselves in ICU. OR CCU for that matter. Timor mortis can sometimes concentrate the mind wonderfully.

 

[Povremeni pomorac]

Where do you live?

Nurses in UK got a 3% pay rise plus many/most of them are on an auto-incrementing scale so in they get more than that.

Okay - let's say 4% is not overly generous given the current financial climate but not many people in the private sector have had anything like that yet we face our taxes going up to pay for it.

So most in the private sector face the same inflationary pressures as nurses, have their taxes going up to fund nurses pay rise

So most in the private sector face the same inflationary pressures as nurses, have their taxes going up to fund nurses pay rise And so they should. Some people think that all NHS workers should not be paid anything but just work for the nice warm, fuzzy feeling it gives them.

 

[gordmac]

I suspect that some complaining about how well off the public sector are wouldn't take the pay cut to work there.

 

[bedouin]

I suspect that some complaining about how well off the public sector are wouldn't take the pay cut to work there.

They wouldn't have to. ONS say there is a 7% premium for working in the public sector. Then you get better pensions and as a rule better job security.

 

[penfold]

Fuel at the pump is up from £1/l to £1.50/l, up 50%. Energy costs are up 50% (electricity and gas). These are the main drivers of inflation. A lot of inflation in other products are due to shipping costs (a container from China has gone from $2,300 to $11,000 (mainly due to the rise in fuel costs).

The gouging going on in the box trade is mostly not to do with the cost of HFO, it's mostly capacity(the amalgamation/merger game has produced a situation where there are 4 corps controlling the market and it's pretty much a cartel), congestion in some ports and the lingering effects of the plague.

 

[Bobc]

The gouging going on in the box trade is mostly not to do with the cost of HFO, it's mostly capacity(the amalgamation/merger game has produced a situation where there are 4 corps controlling the market and it's pretty much a cartel), congestion in some ports and the lingering effects of the plague.

Whatever the reason for it, the cost of shipping has soared, and because almost every product we buy these days needs to be shipped from somewhere, it has a significant effect on everything we buy and use.

 

[Povremeni pomorac]

They wouldn't have to. ONS say there is a 7% premium for working in the public sector. Then you get better pensions and as a rule better job security.

Then why do we have a massive shortage of nurses and doctors?

 

[Stemar]

They wouldn't have to. ONS say there is a 7% premium for working in the public sector. Then you get better pensions and as a rule better job security.

Then why do we have a massive shortage of nurses and doctors?

The premium may work for pen pushers and managers, though I could have earned more in the private sector as an excel developer, but the hours, the stress and some patients would explain it for front line staff. Those are tough jobs. How much would you need to be paid to the wipe the arses of old people rendered stroppy by pain or dementia, or pick up the pieces after a serious accident?

 

[newtothis]

The gouging going on in the box trade is mostly not to do with the cost of HFO, it's mostly capacity(the amalgamation/merger game has produced a situation where there are 4 corps controlling the market and it's pretty much a cartel), congestion in some ports and the lingering effects of the plague.

Bolleaux.
Firstly there are nine global carriers and it is nothing like a cartel. In fact, several investigations by FMC, FBI and EU have all come up with no antitrust charges.
Rates are up because of congestion throughout the supply chain that led to ships being anchored up waiting for a berth. Fewer ships for same cargo in free market = rates rise.
No conspiracy, just economics.
This 'cartel' lost money for pretty much the whole of 2011-2019 and no one was complaining when shipping was being done below cost. 20 tonnes of tat from Shanghai to Felixstowe for sub $2k? Those days are gone.

 

[fifer]

I'm an engineer in the public sector. I earn at least 20-30% less than what I would get in the private sector, but I get the civil service alpha scheme pension which makes up some of the difference.

Comparing average private and average public sector salaries is completely pointless. You wouldn't expect them to have the same skills, staff demographic or working locations so pay will be different.

I've worked in the private sector and the waste, inefficiency and general work culture is pretty staggeringly bad. Much prefer where I am now.

 

[Povremeni pomorac]

The premium may work for pen pushers and managers, though I could have earned more in the private sector as an excel developer, but the hours, the stress and some patients would explain it for front line staff. Those are tough jobs. How much would you need to be paid to the wipe the arses of old people rendered stroppy by pain or dementia, or pick up the pieces after a serious accident?

Quite: Me, c 1983/4, in the early morning of a summer day I was pottering into A&E in the old Salisbury Infirmary where an ambulance was already parked. (A&E was a bit less 24/7 then.) There were a couple of ambulancemen standing there looking a bit, well, shocked. (No paramedics then.) I knew them. One of them said, "Sorry doc, would you mind just pronouncing our patient dead, so we can unlead him and move on? It's not difficult." So, I of course said, "yes" and went in the back door whereupon a dreadul smell of burning was there. The "person" to certify was wrapped in a blanket, in pieces, looking like so many pieces of burnt wood. There had been a nasty pile up on the A 303. There was another body to deal with (I think in the same vehicle) of a man in his 30's whose face had been pushed in by about 2 inches. Is it a wonder I still have nightmares? I still remember that smell. It's embedded deep in my brain somewhere. (The Rhinencephalon I guess.) I'd like the people who moan about what NHS workers get by way of a pay rise to have to deal with shit like that and then post again.
I reckon my years in the NHS have ruined my mental health and left me with a sort of PTSD; somewhat like that of the armed services.

 

[Povremeni pomorac]

Bolleaux.
Firstly there are nine global carriers and it is nothing like a cartel. In fact, several investigations by FMC, FBI and EU have all come up with no antitrust charges.
Rates are up because of congestion throughout the supply chain that led to ships being anchored up waiting for a berth. Fewer ships for same cargo in free market = rates rise.
No conspiracy, just economics.
This 'cartel' lost money for pretty much the whole of 2011-2019 and no one was complaining when shipping was being done below cost. 20 tonnes of tat from Shanghai to Felixstowe for sub $2k? Those days are gone.

Any references to back that up?

 

[penfold]

Bolleaux.
Firstly there are nine global carriers and it is nothing like a cartel. In fact, several investigations by FMC, FBI and EU have all come up with no antitrust charges.
Rates are up because of congestion throughout the supply chain that led to ships being anchored up waiting for a berth. Fewer ships for same cargo in free market = rates rise.
No conspiracy, just economics.
This 'cartel' lost money for pretty much the whole of 2011-2019 and no one was complaining when shipping was being done below cost. 20 tonnes of tat from Shanghai to Felixstowe for sub $2k? Those days are gone.

Thanks for furiously agreeing with most of what I wrote; you might want to work on the people skills though. We can agree to differ on whether there's a cartel.

 

[newtothis]

Any references to back that up?

Plenty, some of which I even wrote.
The nine global carriers are MSC, Maersk, CMA CGM, Cosco, Hapag-Lloyd, Ocean Network Express, Evergreen, HMM and Yang Ming.
https://lloydslist.maritimeintellig...stigation-clears-Box-Club-lines-of-wrongdoing
Press corner
Outlook 2022: West Coast ports face continued congestion, vessel backlogs
Warning shipping delay problems to continue this year
Hapag-Lloyd earns cost of capital for first time in a decade

 

[Povremeni pomorac]

Plenty, some of which I even wrote.
The nine global carriers are MSC, Maersk, CMA CGM, Cosco, Hapag-Lloyd, Ocean Network Express, Evergreen, HMM and Yang Ming.
https://lloydslist.maritimeintellig...stigation-clears-Box-Club-lines-of-wrongdoing
Press corner
Outlook 2022: West Coast ports face continued congestion, vessel backlogs
Warning shipping delay problems to continue this year
Hapag-Lloyd earns cost of capital for first time in a decade

OK- but you missed out this:- Shipping cartel fines now total $83.5 million after WWO conviction

 

[newtothis]

OK- but you missed out this:- Shipping cartel fines now total $83.5 million after WWO conviction

The original comment was regarding container lines operating in a cartel. Car carriers are not box carriers.

 

[robertj]

How can you say that with a straight face?

Fuel at the pump is up from £1/l to £1.50/l, up 50%. Energy costs are up 50% (electricity and gas). These are the main drivers of inflation. A lot of inflation in other products are due to shipping costs (a container from China has gone from $2,300 to $11,000 (mainly due to the rise in fuel costs).

Oil and gas prices are the key drivers for the inflation that we are now seeing.

Don't believe me? Read this

more of this to come too. The old words ‘you’ve seen nothing yet’

 

[robertj]

The thing is, that firstly, most people in the private sector haven't had a pay rise yet, and secondly, 5% doesn't cut it for low-middle earners, where most of the things they spend their money on (energy, fuel, food) have gone up by 20-50%.

I had the discussion with my co-directors only the other day about an across-the-board 5% pay rise for our staff, and to do that we would need to raise our hourly charge rate by 8%. We are in a competitive market, and so we're not sure whether we can even get away with that without losing clients. If we do raise our rates (and other suppliers to that client do too, which is probable), then that company will have to raise its prices to pay its staff another 5% AND raise its prices ANOTHER 5% in order to cover its increased input costs, and so the vicious cycle of inflation takes hold.

We haven't even scraped the surface of what could be coming. Be careful what you wish for.

have you and your co directors thought of a pay cut Bob to finance it?

 

[Bobc]

have you and your co directors thought of a pay cut Bob to finance it?

No. We are increasing our rates and then we'll see.