Inaccurate journalism

[Shuggy]

I was fortunate enough to be staying in a yacht club last night. It had loads of magazines scattered around so while I ate my billy-no-mates beer and steak I read a few magazines. A couple of things jumped out at me.

First one: Duncan Kent had written an article about navigating using a tablet. He wrote that devices without GPS ‘use triangulation from mobile phone masts to determine position’ or something very similar. Is that true? I thought that devices without GPS could not determine position but those with GPS often used mobile-assisted techniques to gain a fix faster.

Second one: some journo (I think it might have been Duncan Kent again but can’t remember, although I took a photo of the relevant page) in the ‘what boat’ section stated that a used Boreal 44 could be bought for £150k-£250k. I was absolutely taken by the boat and started to scour the ads. Utter fantasy. They go for £400k-£500k. Does no-one proof read and fact check any more?

Hmmph.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

I was fortunate enough to be staying in a yacht club last night. It had loads of magazines scattered around so while I ate my billy-no-mates beer and steak I read a few magazines. A couple of things jumped out at me.

First one: Duncan Kent had written an article about navigating using a tablet. He wrote that devices without GPS ‘use triangulation from mobile phone masts to determine position’ or something very similar. Is that true? I thought that devices without GPS could not determine position but those with GPS often used mobile-assisted techniques to gain a fix faster.

Second one: some journo (I think it might have been Duncan Kent again but can’t remember, although I took a photo of the relevant page) in the ‘what boat’ section stated that a used Boreal 44 could be bought for £150k-£250k. I was absolutely taken by the boat and started to scour the ads. Utter fantasy. They go for £400k-£500k. Does no-one proof read and fact check any more?

Hmmph.

Inaccurate journalism is probably an example of tautology these days...

 

[Lon nan Gruagach]

I was fortunate enough to be staying in a yacht club last night. It had loads of magazines scattered around so while I ate my billy-no-mates beer and steak I read a few magazines. A couple of things jumped out at me.

First one: Duncan Kent had written an article about navigating using a tablet. He wrote that devices without GPS ‘use triangulation from mobile phone masts to determine position’ or something very similar. Is that true? I thought that devices without GPS could not determine position but those with GPS often used mobile-assisted techniques to gain a fix faster.

Second one: some journo (I think it might have been Duncan Kent again but can’t remember, although I took a photo of the relevant page) in the ‘what boat’ section stated that a used Boreal 44 could be bought for £150k-£250k. I was absolutely taken by the boat and started to scour the ads. Utter fantasy. They go for £400k-£500k. Does no-one proof read and fact check any more?

Hmmph.

Re navigation,or as mobile devices call it location. There are several methods that a device will use in order to snoop on your location. Mr Google has a map of WiFi access points (open or not), the map is populated by mobile devices with other location systems reporting where all WiFi access points are. Thee are apps that will display all "visible" cell phone masts, and as such can determine location. Then there is GPS.
Since location is a gold mine for data mining and advertising, a device will use any and all location systems available.

 

[lpdsn]

Inaccurate journalism is probably an example of tautology these days...

+1. Sadly.

Re: the phone cells and working out position, the network can measure the range from each cell, but I understand it's usuallly not even turned on these days. The phone can't do it itself.

 

[claymore]

Shuggipoos
I am desolate at the lonely picture you paint of eating your steak and hoovering down the beer on your own-some.
If this occurs again - call me!

 

[LadyInBed]

Using a tablet for nav without gps, saying that it will pick up position via mobile net is only true if the tablet is capable of taking a mobile sim card.

 

[knuterikt]

+1. Sadly.

Re: the phone cells and working out position, the network can measure the range from each cell, but I understand it's usuallly not even turned on these days. The phone can't do it itself.

Source for this inaccurate information is?

 

[Stemar]

It will also only give a position to within a hundred metres or more, if you've got a signal, and there are plenty of places even close to hard bits of sea where you won't get one. The correct description for tablets/phones without without GPS in the context of that article is useless.

 

[lpdsn]

Source for this inaccurate information is?

RAN Engineer.

Best the phone can do from a mobile network is to know the cell ID (and sector) and then it would need a database of cell site locations.

 

[Heckler]

It will also only give a position to within a hundred metres or more, if you've got a signal, and there are plenty of places even close to hard bits of sea where you won't get one. The correct description for tablets/phones without without GPS in the context of that article is useless.

My Iphone doesnt have a gps chip in it but Mr Uber seems to know exactly where I am!

 

[Heckler]

I was fortunate enough to be staying in a yacht club last night. It had loads of magazines scattered around so while I ate my billy-no-mates beer and steak I read a few magazines. A couple of things jumped out at me.

First one: Duncan Kent had written an article about navigating using a tablet. He wrote that devices without GPS ‘use triangulation from mobile phone masts to determine position’ or something very similar. Is that true? I thought that devices without GPS could not determine position but those with GPS often used mobile-assisted techniques to gain a fix faster.

Second one: some journo (I think it might have been Duncan Kent again but can’t remember, although I took a photo of the relevant page) in the ‘what boat’ section stated that a used Boreal 44 could be bought for £150k-£250k. I was absolutely taken by the boat and started to scour the ads. Utter fantasy. They go for £400k-£500k. Does no-one proof read and fact check any more?

Hmmph.

See my post about Uber for position fixing. It wont work once well out to sea however. Be careful about using prices on international websites, they dynamically change the prices to suit the country you are in. So looking at Bene 381s, my missus is convinced that the french ones she sees for £59k gives a true reflection of ours worth! But look at the Euro price and use todays exchange rate and you can see where it all goes tits up! What it says on Internet aint always right!

 

[johnalison]

Google maps seems capable of locating drivers' positions and speeds and recording them accurately on their street maps displaying 'traffic'.

 

[Heckler]

I was fortunate enough to be staying in a yacht club last night. It had loads of magazines scattered around so while I ate my billy-no-mates beer and steak I read a few magazines. A couple of things jumped out at me.

First one: Duncan Kent had written an article about navigating using a tablet. He wrote that devices without GPS ‘use triangulation from mobile phone masts to determine position’ or something very similar. Is that true? I thought that devices without GPS could not determine position but those with GPS often used mobile-assisted techniques to gain a fix faster.

Second one: some journo (I think it might have been Duncan Kent again but can’t remember, although I took a photo of the relevant page) in the ‘what boat’ section stated that a used Boreal 44 could be bought for £150k-£250k. I was absolutely taken by the boat and started to scour the ads. Utter fantasy. They go for £400k-£500k. Does no-one proof read and fact check any more?

Hmmph.

He is a member here!

 

[Lon nan Gruagach]

RAN Engineer.

Best the phone can do from a mobile network is to know the cell ID (and sector) and then it would need a database of cell site locations.

That would be cells IDs (plural), the database is available so a phone CAN do it itself (and there are apps that do) Dont need no fancy dancy network tool.

 

[Sandyman]

My Iphone doesnt have a gps chip in it but Mr Uber seems to know exactly where I am!

Mr Uber don't need no chip, sim or radio signal to find you. Just a pair of lugholes & audio does the trick ???

 

[Old Bumbulum]

It will also only give a position to within a hundred metres or more, if you've got a signal,

Not my experience. Doubtless in rural areas accuracy may be lower but my Iphone 4s has no GPS and knows where it is to well inside 100m if it has a signal. At Liverpool St station it knows which platform it's on! (Google maps)
Granted, at sea it would be almost useless for navigation.

 

[lpdsn]

That would be cells IDs (plural), the database is available so a phone CAN do it itself (and there are apps that do) Dont need no fancy dancy network tool.

I've spent the last hour or so going through 3GPP specs before deciding I've got better things to do with my Saturday afternoon. Anyway, there are extensive capabilities for passing information to determine the position between the UE and network, although so far the specs back up my assertion that the the cell location is not given to the phone. The specs are freely available so nothing to stop you looking too. And, if you have the database on the phone you can publish a bit of it on here. I'm sure the CIA and whatever the KGB is called these days already have it.

I've no doubt at all the phones can do a lot from WiFi sites etc, I just don't believe that they do by ranging from the mobile cell sites and working it out themselves.

 

[lpdsn]

At Liverpool St station it knows which platform it's on! (Google maps)
Granted, at sea it would be almost useless for navigation.

Ranging from cells gives a more accurate position than that in areas covered by many cells.

 

[prv]

my Iphone 4s has no GPS

Are you quite sure? Apple’s original spec page lists both GPS and GLONASS for all models of 4s.

Pete

 

[prv]

My Iphone doesnt have a gps chip in it

As above; I haven’t gone trawling through Apple’s old pages, but Wikipedia is easier to check quickly and that reckons every iPhone back to at least the 3G has had GPS; in the UK only a tiny handful of early adopters bought the model before the 3G so I doubt that’s what you have.

That’s how Uber knows where you are.

Pete