Krusty
Well-Known Member
PS: I'm away cruising again in a few days: any extensive follow-up will have to be delayed until October!
In Wind at anchor
- Thread starter rrees
- Start date
shmoo
Well-Known Member
If you don't mind: some questions
question1: so its not attached to the back stay at all?
question2: about how big it it?
question3: what fabric?
question1: so its not attached to the back stay at all?
question2: about how big it it?
question3: what fabric?
Krusty
Well-Known Member
Area about 22 sq.ft. (32ft boat)
Material 5oz. ''dinghy'' sailcloth.
Set flying.
See my later post, ''Riding sails''
Material 5oz. ''dinghy'' sailcloth.
Set flying.
See my later post, ''Riding sails''
William_H
Well-Known Member
I would advocat that you make your own riding sail out of an old jib (or main). You can a lot of things with a domestic sewing machine on lightish sail cloth. In stead of eyelets you can make a loop of fabric which is sewn into the sail.
The idea of using 2 sails in a vee may be worth trying.
However one sail set as far aft as possible seems logical.
If you set its luff on the backstay (on hanks) you need to be able to attach the clew at a suitable position. If it is a lose footed sail then the sheeting point needs to be out far enough and also pull down to provide equal tension down and back. If there is hull out behind the backstay this might be practical but if the backstay chain plates are on the transom (as is usual) you might find it easier to fit the riding sail with a small boom with a goose neck on the backstay and twin sheets pulling the boom down and staying to each side.
How big? (how long is a piece of string?) I would start with a 8ft luff up the backstay with a foot of about 2 ft. (for a 30ft boat) The shape will depend on the sheeting point at the bottom aft end. Haul it up the backstay with a topping lift or main halyard.
If it is too small it won't be so effective ,if it is too big it will be susceptible to damage in the wind and a nuisance to store.
good luck and DIY olewill
The idea of using 2 sails in a vee may be worth trying.
However one sail set as far aft as possible seems logical.
If you set its luff on the backstay (on hanks) you need to be able to attach the clew at a suitable position. If it is a lose footed sail then the sheeting point needs to be out far enough and also pull down to provide equal tension down and back. If there is hull out behind the backstay this might be practical but if the backstay chain plates are on the transom (as is usual) you might find it easier to fit the riding sail with a small boom with a goose neck on the backstay and twin sheets pulling the boom down and staying to each side.
How big? (how long is a piece of string?) I would start with a 8ft luff up the backstay with a foot of about 2 ft. (for a 30ft boat) The shape will depend on the sheeting point at the bottom aft end. Haul it up the backstay with a topping lift or main halyard.
If it is too small it won't be so effective ,if it is too big it will be susceptible to damage in the wind and a nuisance to store.
good luck and DIY olewill
shmoo
Well-Known Member
I already use an old jib run up the backstay but was interested in pilota's double V because it didn't use the backstay.
Backstay is a bit of a pain on our boat: tiny ensign block about 2 m up gets in the way and its also the HF antenna. We rig the riding sail above the insulator, with its own insulators in the sheet and tack so the whole sail is hot. Works ok but can cause tricksy tuner behavior when sail is wet and moving about!
The appeal of the double v design is to get it right clear of the the backstay.
Backstay is a bit of a pain on our boat: tiny ensign block about 2 m up gets in the way and its also the HF antenna. We rig the riding sail above the insulator, with its own insulators in the sheet and tack so the whole sail is hot. Works ok but can cause tricksy tuner behavior when sail is wet and moving about!
The appeal of the double v design is to get it right clear of the the backstay.
Krusty
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I would advocate that you make your own riding sail out of an old jib (or main). [ QUOTE ]
I used an old small jib on the backstay a few times: it was never satisfactory! Two reasons: a jib is cut with fullness in the luff, which flutters (violently in strong winds) however hard you sheet it: and an old jib is liable to be split by such treatment. (I've done that too!)
[ QUOTE ]
The idea of using 2 sails in a vee may be worth trying[ QUOTE ]
OH! Come on, Olewill!
The V-twin riding sail has been tried, severely tested and proved by at least two yachts,(Piota and Kyra) over at least eight years, in anchorages from west Scotland to the Baltic to the far north of Norway!
The only reason it was not patented is because the idea was published in an American sailing magazine a long time ago!
I would advocate that you make your own riding sail out of an old jib (or main). [ QUOTE ]
I used an old small jib on the backstay a few times: it was never satisfactory! Two reasons: a jib is cut with fullness in the luff, which flutters (violently in strong winds) however hard you sheet it: and an old jib is liable to be split by such treatment. (I've done that too!)
[ QUOTE ]
The idea of using 2 sails in a vee may be worth trying[ QUOTE ]
OH! Come on, Olewill!
The V-twin riding sail has been tried, severely tested and proved by at least two yachts,(Piota and Kyra) over at least eight years, in anchorages from west Scotland to the Baltic to the far north of Norway!
The only reason it was not patented is because the idea was published in an American sailing magazine a long time ago!
noswellplease
Well-Known Member
Bonus point for anyone who can come up with a pic of this arrangement
Krusty
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Bonus point for anyone who can come up with a pic of this arrangement
[/ QUOTE ]
I have two clear photos if mine, scanned as jpeg files, sizes 68kb and 248kb, but I don't know how to put them on the web and don't have the time to learn it at present.
I will gladly e-mail them to a forumite capable and willing to post them to this topic.
Any volunteers please PM me with e-mail address a.s.a.p.
Bonus point for anyone who can come up with a pic of this arrangement
[/ QUOTE ]
I have two clear photos if mine, scanned as jpeg files, sizes 68kb and 248kb, but I don't know how to put them on the web and don't have the time to learn it at present.
I will gladly e-mail them to a forumite capable and willing to post them to this topic.
Any volunteers please PM me with e-mail address a.s.a.p.
William_H
Well-Known Member
High Piota when I said make it out of an old jib I really only meant use the cloth. You certainly don't want any fullness or camber.
And I was not so much disparaging the twin sails but rather saying that if it was me I would try one first. The additional drag might be a problem.
Yes if it could be hoisted not using the backstay that would be good but of course the further aft you get the sail the more effective it is but the more difficult to sheet it. olewill
And I was not so much disparaging the twin sails but rather saying that if it was me I would try one first. The additional drag might be a problem.
Yes if it could be hoisted not using the backstay that would be good but of course the further aft you get the sail the more effective it is but the more difficult to sheet it. olewill
Krusty
Well-Known Member
If all goes well, PICTURES of my riding sail and the set-up will appear soon. (Thanks to a forum contributor familiar with the procedure)
I hope they will answer most questions.
I hope they will answer most questions.
Krusty
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
....The additional drag might be a problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
The additional drag is small; not much more than some spray-hoods I've come across, but the large forces that build up when a yacht slews at 30 of 40 degrees to the wind are eliminated.
To illustrate: the load on a single anchor cable is at a minimum when truly head-to-wind, but that is at least doubled when sheering and ranging about through 30 degrees-plus.
With my riding sail set, the load seems to be about 120 per cent of the load without it. (The test-method?... taking the load by hand & body!)
....The additional drag might be a problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
The additional drag is small; not much more than some spray-hoods I've come across, but the large forces that build up when a yacht slews at 30 of 40 degrees to the wind are eliminated.
To illustrate: the load on a single anchor cable is at a minimum when truly head-to-wind, but that is at least doubled when sheering and ranging about through 30 degrees-plus.
With my riding sail set, the load seems to be about 120 per cent of the load without it. (The test-method?... taking the load by hand & body!)
Kylora
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
If all goes well, PICTURES of my riding sail and the set-up will appear soon. (Thanks to a forum contributor familiar with the procedure)
I hope they will answer most questions.
[/ QUOTE ]
I only have one of Piota's pix at the moment, hopefully will get t'other.
Clicky Pix
Ash
If all goes well, PICTURES of my riding sail and the set-up will appear soon. (Thanks to a forum contributor familiar with the procedure)
I hope they will answer most questions.
[/ QUOTE ]
I only have one of Piota's pix at the moment, hopefully will get t'other.
Clicky Pix
Ash
Kylora
Well-Known Member
I'm too late to edit my previous post, so here is the second photo.
Clicky Pix
Ash
Clicky Pix
Ash