In support of solar

PaulRainbow said:
Name one cruising boat that has sunk because it had a couple of solar panels on a gantry ?
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Agreed
I am a cruiser not a racer. I don't like a deck full of clutter. There is the issue of windage especially going to windward. Not really an issue in a coastal cruising boat as most people just switch the engine on.
We keep fenders in the lockers not strapped to the transom. We don't have monkey bars but we do have solar on the guardrails. We carry our hard dinghy on deck. We also have the inevitable liferaft, man over board gear and outboard engine. All this windage probably reduces windward performance not to mention the large sprayhood. We do try to minimise what's on deck but at the end of the day we all have to work with what we have. If we had a bigger boat we could probably have more stuff below decks but that's not going to happen. If cruisers are happy with loaded decks then I really don't see a big downside. I have never heard of a yacht capsizing due to a high COG. I would be more worried in bad weather about the stuff getting ripped off the deck by green water or being hit by a solar panel, liferaft, outboard engine, fuel can etc
 
coopec said:
Thanks for your thoughts.

The boat is not in the water yet (cue PVB) so I don't know how the mizzen boom will affect the panels (it's a worry). I've thought of mounting a couple on the push-pit as well- at least they wouldn't be shaded. Maybe I will have to install diodes to overcome the problem of shading (apparently it can be DIY)

I always remember the survey they did of cruising yachts and they found that the average yacht spends 90% of its' time at anchor or penned

I thought a lot about 12V vs 24V and decided on 24V as I need an inverter to power the microwave, induction hob, bread-maker, HWS and water-maker. I was also swayed by what Rainbow Power Company had to say about 12V vs 24V.
12 Volt, 24 Volt or 48 Volt | Limitations & Solutions
24 Volt Electrical Systems | West Marine

I think you'll find most production yachts over 40ft are 24V these days
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I think you are greatly mistaken.
 
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geem said:
Agreed
I am a cruiser not a racer. I don't like a deck full of clutter. There is the issue of windage especially going to windward. Not really an issue in a coastal cruising boat as most people just switch the engine on.
We keep fenders in the lockers not strapped to the transom. We don't have monkey bars but we do have solar on the guardrails. We carry our hard dinghy on deck. We also have the inevitable liferaft, man over board gear and outboard engine. All this windage probably reduces windward performance not to mention the large sprayhood. We do try to minimise what's on deck but at the end of the day we all have to work with what we have. If we had a bigger boat we could probably have more stuff below decks but that's not going to happen. If cruisers are happy with loaded decks then I really don't see a big downside. I have never heard of a yacht capsizing due to a high COG. I would be more worried in bad weather about the stuff getting ripped off the deck by green water or being hit by a solar panel, liferaft, outboard engine, fuel can etc
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I do have my solar on an arch, it's lightweight 25mm stainless with a pair of 100W panels. The panels weigh 7kg each and the arch is around 10kg, so 24kg in total. An average person weights what, 80kg-90kg, plus clothing, so circa 100kg ? My boat was designed to sleep 7, that's potentially 700kg of people in the cockpit.

Previous owner had 50 ltr water and holding tanks fitted below the cabin sole, right on top of the keel.

I reckon i'm pretty safe with the 24kg solar array 2m above the deck. :)
 
PaulRainbow said:
I do have my solar on an arch, it's lightweight 25mm stainless with a pair of 100W panels. The panels weigh 7kg each and the arch is around 10kg, so 24kg in total. An average person weights what, 80kg-90kg, plus clothing, so circa 100kg ? My boat was designed to sleep 7, that's potentially 700kg of people in the cockpit.

Previous owner had 50 ltr water and holding tanks fitted below the cabin sole, right on top of the keel.

I reckon i'm pretty safe with the 24kg solar array 2m above the deck. :)
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My masts weigh about 1/2tonne but 6tonne of lead at the other end seems to work ok?
 
lustyd said:
Cheap is not an indication of quality in this area. While true that "too cheap to be true" is bad, normal cheap panels are generally the same as expensive ones, just with less branding and marketing attached. Look for features like ETFE and bypass diodes as well as half cell and don't assume expensive is better.
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Can you point me in the direction of such "cheap but good" panels, also controller. Having been following this thread I'm considering getting a couple 50watt panels and controller just to keep the battery up when on anchor or away from shorepower. These would only be put out on deck propped up with a fender when needed, otherwise stored away in a protective bag in the huge cockpit locker. The controller would be permanently wired in, but panels plugged into it or sockets in the locker only when required.

Further question - I think the controllers use power even when no panels are unplugged from them. I just wonder how significant that would be , say over winter when boat isn't on shore-power ?
 
You can do a lot worse than look up Bimble Solar, they have a decent range of gear at good prices.
I'm not really aware of any poor quality panels, except maybe early flexible ones.
Also watch out for suspiciously cheap "MPPT" controllers that are actually just PWM. But you don't have to buy Victron, my Epever gear seems to work just fine.
 
My controller (a Victron) uses almost no power when there are no panels attached, I don't have a switch on it but it does sit outside the shunt so I can measure it.

In terms of cheap panels Will Prowse on YouTube does a lot of reviews although my statement was more of a "you don't need to buy expensive Victron*" than a "there are really cheap panels". My Renogy are excellent and they do a 50W version around £50
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoj6RxIAQq8kmJme-5dnN0Q

*now I look Victron don't seem too pricey, so appologies for the very bad example!
 
On another forum a bloke bought himself a new, used cruiser racer.

Someone said: "...................... what are you doing about a stern gantry and panels ? "

He said: " I have already done it, it's in the skip" :


1631615227497.jpeg
Courtesy Olaf Hart

All windage is a nightmare for performance and boat handling, when it is high and heavy it gives you a double wack. A lot of it is optional, like everything else, everyone will have different priorities.
I do think some people might be getting a bit overextended though.

.
 
doug748 said:
On another forum a bloke bought himself a new, used cruiser racer.

Someone said: "...................... what are you doing about a stern gantry and panels ? "

He said: " I have already done it, it's in the skip" :


View attachment 122458
Courtesy Olaf Hart

All windage is a nightmare for performance and boat handling, when it is high and heavy it gives you a double wack. A lot of it is optional, like everything else, everyone will have different priorities.
I do think some people might be getting a bit overextended though.

.
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What an absolute waste. I know these things are custom made but to just cut it up and skip it shows a total disregard for other people who might value such a thing, not to mention the general waste of resources.

My solar bimini was made using secondhand stainless that I got for £150, the welding cost the same again and there was about £50 of brackets and other fittings on top. It's not as pretty as a custom made fabrication but it does the job.
 
PaulRainbow said:
I do have my solar on an arch, it's lightweight 25mm stainless with a pair of 100W panels. The panels weigh 7kg each and the arch is around 10kg, so 24kg in total. An average person weights what, 80kg-90kg, plus clothing, so circa 100kg ? My boat was designed to sleep 7, that's potentially 700kg of people in the cockpit.
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I take that view, too. Boats were designed for 5 crew and there are only one and a titchy one of us. Solar panel (100w) may not look racy, but I don't think it would get in the way if you wanted to race:

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By the way, it has stood up to some high winds and bouncing about the North Channel. Once, whilst ashore, the wind caught the panel and tipped the whole boat forward onto its bow (it' s twin keel, of course). Just a push back into place and no damage to the arch or panel.

More, by the way: Only two bends in this (I think I paid £10 for each) and NOA panel bearers. Stainless bought in lengths from supplier and fittings online. A lot cheaper than a wind thingy.
 
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dgadee said:
By the way, it has stood up to some high winds and bouncing about the North Channel. Once, whilst ashore, the wind caught the panel and tipped the whole boat forward onto its bow (it' s twin keel, of course). Just a push back into place and no damage to the arch or panel.
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I agree about the weight non-issue, we have a 7 berth boat with only two of us on board. I wouldn't rely on fittings and tube held together with small grub screws though, they can come loose over time with vibration. We had what appears to have been a micro burst this morning with winds estimated 50-60 kts, a bit lively on the mooring. Evidently there are some panels on the ground in the boat yard.
 
Graham376 said:
I agree about the weight non-issue, we have a 7 berth boat with only two of us on board. I wouldn't rely on fittings and tube held together with small grub screws though, they can come loose over time with vibration. We had what appears to have been a micro burst this morning with winds estimated 50-60 kts, a bit lively on the mooring. Evidently there are some panels on the ground in the boat yard.
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Agree. Everything has to be through bolted. But a good 18v drill at slow speed with HSS bit will deal with any holes in stainless (though a bench drill is always preferable).
 
And if drilling through both the stainless and the aluminium frame of the panel from underneath, don't forget that you'll have about half a nanosecond between emerging from the stainless and passing through the aluminium as though it weren't there, then hitting the underside of the panel itself.
 
Kelpie said:
And if drilling through both the stainless and the aluminium frame of the panel from underneath, don't forget that you'll have about half a nanosecond between emerging from the stainless and passing through the aluminium as though it weren't there, then hitting the underside of the panel itself.
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Put a block of wood there! There were holes in my frame anyway. No need to drill that. And the NOA bits were aluminium:

1631624849734.png
These NOA bits are expensive but very good. They now only sell 25mm inserts and claim that these will do 1" tubing. That is not true. However, they did send me 1" inserts for free just a few months ago for an outboard bracket of theirs.
 
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geem said:
If you go to the Caribbean you will this regularly, especially on USA flagged vessels. I think they must have shares in scaffolding companies. Another iteration we see is French yachts with the tallest structures (monkey bars) and the dinghy slung on the underside but so high up that you can walk on the sugar scoop without ducking. I kid you not. They dont seem to worry about windage or the impact on their stability
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Someone on this forum said that most sailors in Europe are what Australians would call "Day Sailors". If that is the case and you are always within reach of a safe harbor within a few hours windage and stability is not a huge concern.
 
coopec said:
Someone on this forum said that most sailors in Europe are what Australians would call "Day Sailors". If that is the case and you are always within reach of a safe harbor within a few hours windage and stability is not a huge concern.
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How condescending.

But even day sailors sail more than those whose boat is in the garden.
 
I find it rather sad how some threads turn personal...

Unless someone actually knows the real RM of his or her boat and in it's current load condition, any statement regarding stability is simply conjecture.
No single addition will, within reason, dramatically diminish stability, but it is rather the culmination of many such "improvements" that is the problem and nowhere is this more likely than when fitting out a boat for blue water.
The smaller the boat, the more vulnerable it will be to overloading with "must have" gear.
 
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