In-mast reefing

I consider myself fortunate, I ve owned three boats two of them brand new. I thought the problems we had with in mast would go away with new everything, and yes it was much better but it did jam, counldnt get the sail reefed when I really needed to - and it wasnt the sails fault . Then a season later the sail went baggy and it wouldnt furl easily - assuming I was able to get it out in the first place, all this bearing in mind I had many years experience with this type of system.

So I now have a classic rig with a lazy jack system and single line reefing - also not ideal - lots of string and more to do - but far safer (IMHO) and for the record all the problems I had in mast occoured well within the sight of land so distance off shore isnt a factor. The icing on the cake is that the rig can be tuned to the main meaning that the boat points up better and goes faster.
 
Chris when we were boathunting the Oceanlord was well up on our wish list and we looked at quite a few, however 80% of them I think were sold with in-mast mains. We had a test sail on one and the sail jammed and this was with the owner handling it not me! There was one superb one but out of our price range at £113,000 with a FB slab reef main and new engine and lots of goodies.

In our case we were lucky and found the boat we have now. The light wind performance makes it a real pleasure to sail and the reefing system means we can still handle it in the rough stuff, pretty well the best of all worlds. I can certainly see the benefits over reefing at the mast and our set up certainly doesn't come cheap with banks of clutches and 2 self tailer winches on the coachroof, luckily most of this was standard on our boat and we just added a bit to make a 2 line system work 3 full reefs.
 
Sailed lots of miles in a 45.2 - I reckon this one is at least a knot slow given the conditions its sailing in over a classic rigged example.
 
We averaged over 7 knots from Piriac to Ile d'Yeu. Not bad for a 36' boat in 11kts true. We raced a Dufour 45 and beat them into the marina! The autopilot was doing the sailing too. In my limited experience, the weight of the boat affects the speed more than details in the sails.
 
With enough wind to counter differences in sail area (to the point the 'normal' sail version might need the 1st reef in) and not going upwind the difference would be little. Upwind however would really show a difference in pointing angle and therefore VMG to windward and in light winds on any heading again in-mast would lose badly. That is with all things being equal like same boat, clean bottom, good helmsman.

Doesn't mean a boat is 'slow', just that the same boat with in-mast isn't as quick as it would be with normal sails, that is the price of roller blind convenience!
 
Depends how good the in mast sail is though.....

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Of course you did! 11 knts and Dufor 45 will hardly move at all, try the same experiment at 20kts and the Dufor if sailed properly will dissapear over the horizon compared to a 36 - its all about water line length and power. MOST in mast sails are skinny afairs that are down on power, also they are difficult to flatten which means that there is more heal and they have to be reefed earlier. Its horses for courses, if you want to have easy sail handing then you have in mast and buy a new sail every two or three seasons, if you want to "sail" then you go for a classic rig. All I can say is I have sailed more since I dispensed with the inmast, which is a little perverse but the extra sail area makes a difference, I apply the iron topsail at around 4 - 5 knots - I can usually sail faster than that with a skinny main I couldnt. My sailing ability has nt changed dramatically (I know Iam not that good) so it must be the rig.
 
An interesting reply. We had a similar experience crossing the channel last year with a Malo 36. When it was F6, with his extra weight he punched through the waves better. For the first 15 miles he gained a few hundred yards. The wind then dropped to F4 and we raced past. Off the Needles the wind rose to SW F7 and we had half the sail reefed but still kept just ahead but he was still carrying all his sails. We prefer to sail in F4/5 unless it is behind, as I am sure is the case with the majority of sailors. In these conditions you want to sail at maximum speed. You need a light boat and big sails. The difference IMHO from the method of furling is tiny. Regarding the life of the sails there is no contest. My main is 5 years old and still has a sheen like new. A slab reefed sail will be a crumpled mess after a few weeks.
 
Well there you are my in mast sails ( I had the system for 10 years) lasted about 2 seasons they looked good, ie clean but were out of shape so they jammed in the slot and they didnt set well, no battens, no prebend, and around 15% less area than the classic rig. My current slab reefed main is dirty, not crumpled, but its 5 years old and it still sets very well. The mast has been tuned to the sail and the boat is "fast" ( a relative term). My argument is that forgetting anyone elses sailing ability or any other boat that may be around IF your boat with you at the helm had the classic rig YOU would also sail faster simply because you would have more power at your disposal. Some from the increase in sail area on the main some 15% and lots from the ability you have to set the main as a more efficent aerofoil. It stands to reason that to combat these adverse sailing effects I have mentioned some sailmakers have devised ingenious technologies to counter the negatives in an attempt to produce a sail that sets and furls. But most of the time they dont bother.

Morgana's tri radial main above is a work of art and I will weep on their behalf it it jams and has to be cut out of the mast.
 
Can't see why its any more likely that a furling main would need cutting off the mast than a slab reefing main where one of the cars has jammed....

I'd just scandalise it by untying the clew, same as I would with a slab reefing main if that jammed......
 
Ah well not far from you on the Orwell is Foxes yard home of Oyster UK where I kept a yacht for a few years, there I have seen with my own eyes new hood sails being cut out of the masts of oysters with a stanley knife because they could not be moved in or out - yes they wept. The sails were not salvagable. I have never seen a classic mainsail be so irretrevably stuck that it has to be completely destroyed to drop or remove it, I have seen with my own eyes those expensive batten cars break on a slab reef system but the sail came down OK. I have seen with my eyes more than one example of behind the mast systems jammed mechanically so the sail cannot be moved in or out and the sail has to be cut out to get at the mechanisum - the only good news there was that the sails were old and baggy and NEW in mast systems where the owner (ME) has tried to introduce prebend (to tension a fixed length forestay to make the jib set properly instead of having a forestay like a banana to windward) and the mechanical system and the sail jammed. Freeing off the rig made the sail move again but then the jib wouldnt set . . yes it got sorted out but the mast has to be straight - so the main is c****p. . . . . BUT sail handing is easier until the sail jams when its out in a gale - the saga is long and sad BUT

I thought with years of experience and learning from my and others mistakes I knew enough about the issues of inmast to combat all this grief I have seen - so boat no 2 (a new boat) had in mast for ease of handing the main - I WAS WRONG! boat no 3 also a new boat has slab for saftey - lots of string bad, good sail shape good, good sailing ability good, more work bad, more awkward takes longer to prepare to sail bad, more expensive bad (unless you have a Morgna tri radia - that really is a great looking sail!), mainsail lasts longer good - but overall slab is safer which IMHO is the clincher.

THis is my painful expensive experience, it costs alot of money to change boats so I leave it to you to decide - should I go to sea with a sail handing system that I know which despite my best efforts: bites - or not?
 
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So I now have a classic rig with a lazy jack system and single line reefing

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Do you hate your genoa?

Let's consider, skinny cut with no roach and no slab reefing.
 
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