In Mast or Lazy Bag

richardbayle

richardbayle

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French Antilles
www.richardbayle.com
I am knocking on a bit now and my wife and I have decided that the time to do the Blue Water stuff is now here and we are leaving for the Caribbean in October next year from the French Med.

All that is irrelevant to the question:

I have a Hunter 41 DS, (please don't tell me the keel will fall off or the mast will fall down) and I have dificulty in reaching the end of the boom to close the lazy bag. It's a very high boom above the stern arch and I need to be a three armed chimp to hold the ends together, close the zip and then pull it. Once I've got it going, no issue, it's the initial bit, balancing on the arch without going through the bimini.

So my wife says, "let's change to in-mast reefing". Now I'm not sure having been a strong advocate of the lazy bag system but now...

Are they now good enough without the jamming clitches of old, or do I stay with the balancing act?
 
Look around at what is being fitted to new cruising boats. Overwhelmingly in mast furling and some in boom furling for the very rich.

Despite what the doom mongers say, once you understand how to use it, which in itself is not difficult, jamming really is not a common problem. Once you have experienced it unlikely you would go back. If you think about it, most people who choose in mast furling will have had conventional sails in the past, but have made a positive choice to change.
 
I've now got a lot of experience with a Sailtainer boom and despite my initial, conservative reservations, I have come to really like it.

With all these roll-away systems you have to understand their requirements, but if you have the slightest level of mechanical sympathy, I believe they can safe, reliable systems.

If you do go with the Sailtainer, one tip is don't go for the completely locked, rigid kicker, but get a strongly sprung one that can be adjusted and set to the right position when furling. This gives you the luxury of having a fine tune-able main when sailing.
 
Having had in-mast, and really liking it for coastal cruising. I analysed my needs for blue water against my purse, and that meant that a sailtaner was a non-starter. I have changed my set up to single line reefing and moved all mainsail controls to the cockpit.
 
Another problem I have experienced from "In-mast" furling is the SCREAMING noise from the back of the mast when the wind plays across it from certain directions and at certain wind speeds. It can be very loud and I have heard it from 7 or 8 boats away in my marina!

When it happens, it will keep you awake !

Anyone one else experienced this phenomenon?


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Yes we have had the noise Lenseman describes, it's called fluting and occurs when the wind strikes the back of the mast at around 45 degrees.

Our mast came with an anti fluting device which is a flexible strip that is fitted in the mast slot, raised on a mast head halyard. Simple to fit and remove takes 5 minutes.

This never occurs on anchor or a mooring, just occasionally in a marina. So I don't think we fitted the strip all the time we were in the Caribbean.
 
I have the version of the 'lazy bag made by Macks Sails. The zip does not disengage. You might consider changing to that type? Gotta be cheaper than a a new mast etc.

Mind you I am still up there on my toes stuffing lines and sail battens into the bag.

On the subject of in mast v slab reefing it is worthy of note that the major charter companies out here in the Caribbean have all gone back to slab reefing.
 
Having had an inmast furling on a boat I am all in favour of them and would definitely have one again. My only issue is that I have heard retro fitted systems are sometimes problematic, but this may have been sorted by now.
 
For someone who is physically challenged, in-mast reefing is definitely the "best" system (and I speak as a 76-year-old with a fully battened main and boom bag.
The bad press that in mast reefing has, is probably due to retrofitted systems, there are few problems with boats equipped with it from new.
There are disadvantages - the boat needs to be designed for the reduced sail area - the noise problem is apparent to marina neighbours and there is far less drive than with a fully battened main (so the boat handling characteristics will possibly be changed).
If the zip access is the only problem you have I would suggest a far more economical and effective solution would be to re-design the boom bag, so that closure is no longer the problem you highlight.
 
Tranona said:
Look around at what is being fitted to new cruising boats. Overwhelmingly in mast furling and some in boom furling for the very rich.
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My in-boom system was much cheaper than a retro-fitted, in-mast system would have been - and much more reliable, from what I have heard from others who have fitted add-on, behind the mast, ones.

I am definitely not in the "very rich" class - in fact, not even rich, unfortunately.
 
Barnac1e said:
My in-boom system was much cheaper than a retro-fitted, in-mast system would have been - and much more reliable, from what I have heard from others who have fitted add-on, behind the mast, ones.

I am definitely not in the "very rich" class - in fact, not even rich, unfortunately.
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Not sure retrofit in mast is a sensible choice, for technical or economic reasons. I was thinking (but not saying it clearly) more about the choice on new boats. Anchored close to a new Oyster last week and my crew mate who is considering buying an Oyster says the boom furling system fitted to this boat is much more expensive overall than the standard in mast. Did look impressive, but don't know the make or whether it can be had as a retrofit.
 
I wouldn't touch in mast furling, especially if ocean sailing, we had one jam on a Jenneau and a forumite has one jammed at the moment and is aking for advice. If you are having a problem with the lazy bag it might be worth considering taking it off plus the lazyjacks and fitting a sail cover that zips up at the bottom.
 
Tranona said:
Not sure retrofit in mast is a sensible choice, for technical or economic reasons. I was thinking (but not saying it clearly) more about the choice on new boats.
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When the OP was clearly considering changing from a lazy bag system (which is what I changed from) that means a new mast or retro-fit addition to the present one. I agree with you that the latter could be problematical, which is why I chose in-boom - not only the cheapest than either in-mast installations available to me but arguably the more efficient solution.

The single sample in-boom example you quote may have been more expensive than a new in-mast system for that yacht but may not be typical of the various makes - there were five candidates when I was researching in 2006. Many as supplied to up-market and larger yachts are highly-engineered systems that include built-in motorised winches both for the halyard and reefing lines - small wonder they are expensive. My cheapo ProFurl system has no such frills and I find it very functional. The main disadvantage against in-mast is the need to be well up into the wind to furl - even with its articulated luff - but the advantages, in my view, outweigh that.
 
The Oyster was a 58 (or similar) and suspect it was electric. Different league from us ordinary mortals! Think, though when you get above 45' or so the "simple" becomes unworkable, although the same Selden in mast seems to scale OK up to about 50'.

Took somebody out the other day whose previous experience of sailing was on her husbands cruiser racer. Her memories were of lots of wet and shouting, so was impressed how relaxed and easy our type of sailing was!
 
Tranona said:
. . . Took somebody out the other day whose previous experience of sailing was on her husbands cruiser racer. Her memories were of lots of wet and shouting, so was impressed how relaxed and easy our type of sailing was!
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You obviously weren't going fast enough with the lee rail under and no reefs in. It will have to be at least a SIX gusting EIGHT to get her excited ! :D



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Tranona said:
The Oyster was a 58 (or similar) and suspect it was electric. Different league from us ordinary mortals!
Click to expand...
:D
But perhaps they do not have any more fun than we do.

Think, though when you get above 45' or so the "simple" becomes unworkable, although the same Selden in mast seems to scale OK up to about 50'.
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Good point. Even with my smaller configuration raising the main is a seriously hard job when three-quarters up because of the close-fitting luff and track that introduces a lot of friction and I can almost understand larger systems having a motorised winch for that.
 
lenseman said:
You obviously weren't going fast enough with the lee rail under and no reefs in. It will have to be at least a SIX gusting EIGHT to get her excited ! :D



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Objective was not speed by re-introduction to the joys of gentle cruising with glorious views of Old Harry on one side and Needles on the other as a bonus. Gentlemen sailors don't do "reef" just roll a bit more in or out as required.
 
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