In mast furling stiff

[pvb]

Do make sure that all your turning blocks are free running as well.

That's a good point. Bavaria generally don't fit blocks on the stanchions, but run the furling line through a gap at the back of the stanchion bases. It works OK generally.

On my last boat, I upgraded the Mickey Mouse blocks which Selden supply by replacing them with Harken Carbo double blocks, which lead the furling line outside the stanchions, and which dramatically reduce friction in the system.

29 mm Outboard Stanchion-Mount Block

 

[capnsensible]

If you have in mast furling you deserve all you get. Enjoy.

What makes you think that? My experiences have been quite the opposite and Im not sure about your comment.

 

[De.windhoos]

Crikey, steady on. If you have nothing positive or useful to say, please don't say it. pvb is a legend and helps people daily here (frankly, I need to start paying forward again and helping others), and is a key part of this community. I sailed for 20 years on my fathers 1930's Gaff Cutter, I had slab reefing on my 30ft Ballad, and in mast with this one, all have positives and negatives. You can screw up all of these, and it can go wrong in any of these setups (over canvassed and under crewed on the RTI race on the Cutter we nearly lose the whole rig over the side).

Back to the matter in hand. Thank you all for the useful and positive responses. I think I'll try and remove the sail and grease the whole lot, thanks for the tip the I can do it with the sail in situ pvb, I'll see how windy it is when I'm next down to the boat.



You can see the rope, at quite a tension, being pulled, and then slipping\jumping through the jaws of the below reefing winch, and the actual winch not moving. If you put some tension on the 'tail' of the continuous line, you can drag it through. Doing it from the mast with a winch handle on ratchet, I should imagine, would be much easier, however, I would prefer to save that as the 'last resort'.

The furling line needs to be 10mm2 double plaited, might be worth checking?

 

[De.windhoos]

Check and grease the bearings of your in-mast furling. Don't forget the top swivel bearing. You will have to remove the sail and climb the mast to do this. Also, check the foil tension. These checks are often overlooked,I know this from experience. After ten years of ownership, I wondered why my in-mast furling was getting increasingly stiff to operate. As a last resort I consulted the Selden Manual. To my shame, I found that the bearings should be greased at least annually. I ended up having to replace my top bearing which had almost seized.. Having learned my lesson, I have not had any further problems with In-mast furling, and have sailed over 25,000 miles.

ohhh, I missed the part of greasing the top swivel I do the rest yearly. Soooo, going up the mast it is then BTW how do you reach the top swivel? is there an inspection port?
Why couldn't they use a maintenance-free bearing for the top???

 

[Laysula]

That's a good point. Bavaria generally don't fit blocks on the stanchions, but run the furling line through a gap at the back of the stanchion bases. It works OK generally.

On my last boat, I upgraded the Mickey Mouse blocks which Selden supply by replacing them with Harken Carbo double blocks, which lead the furling line outside the stanchions, and which dramatically reduce friction in the system.

29 mm Outboard Stanchion-Mount Block

The OP was talking about in mast furling. I was referring to the blocks at the base of the mast and the bank of turning blocks on the coach roof.

 

[[2574]]

I had this problem, very stiff furling mechanism. Lack of maintenance, entirely my fault. My furling winch looked like this:

As you can see, dry bearing, encrusted salt. Get your furling winch apart and service it, it will transform your furling gear.

 

[Richard10002]

and the furling gear (which is this: http://www.seldenmast.com/files/595-063-E.pdf) is stiff as a board.

On page 5 of the pdf, diagram 2, there is a "locking retaining screw".

On a Moody 44 I had the stiff furling issue for the best part of a year, even to the point where we thought the mast might be bent and, subsequently, and "expert rigger" in Malta sold me a new mainsail.

In the end, with the help of my father and a good friend, we gave things a good looking at, found the manual, and discovered that the "locking retaining screw" was not located, thus not locking anything. As a consequence, the furling gear wasn't tensioned properly, and was free to screw and unscrew, whilst the sail was being furled and unfurled. We tensioned the furling gear, locked it in position, and it worked fine thereafter. Both annoying and satisfying at the same time.

I didn't even know this screw existed, and nor did the so called "expert rigger", so it may, or may not, be the root of your problem, but worth a look if you havent already come across it.

 

[Talulah]

We remove the furling winch assembly every couple of years. It’s not possible to service the furling winch without removing the whole assembly. Without servicing the winch the pawls stick and consequently the winch becomes free to rotate irrespective of the in/out pin position.
The first time we disassembled corrosion of the alloy made things difficult. An impact driver had to be used on the mounting bolts. Be wary of where you dismantle the bevel gears. The ball bearings are free to spill out.

 

[MAURICE]

How much tension have you put on the halyard. if too much you could be binding the bearings top and bottom try just easing this a little and see if this helps. Of course check the grease and any friction points on the furling line. ive owned my Moody with this type of system for 13 years and am very happy with it. I have learnt how to tweek it just so.
Maurice

 

[pvb]

The OP was talking about in mast furling. I was referring to the blocks at the base of the mast and the bank of turning blocks on the coach roof.

Quite right! Obviously a senior moment on my part.

 

[whiteshythe]

ohhh, I missed the part of greasing the top swivel I do the rest yearly. Soooo, going up the mast it is then BTW how do you reach the top swivel? is there an inspection port?
Why couldn't they use a maintenance-free bearing for the top???

`The Top Swivel bearing has a hole marked 'GREASE'. To locate this, climb to the top of the mast, and look through the sail slot. Obviously the sail has to be removed first, otherwise, you can't see the hole, which would be obscured by the halyard swivel. Get an accomplice to slowly rotate the reefing winch at the base of the mast until the hole appears by looking through the slot. I inject the grease with a syringe as the hole is too small for the average grease gun.
The other factor affecting in-mast reefing friction is the correct tension of the Luff Foil. Too little tension allows the furled sail to sag against the inside of the mast when extending the sail. Too much tension, increases the load on the top and bottom swivel bearings. In both cases there is an increase of friction in the system. As a rule of thumb, if I can unfurl my mainsail by manually pulling on the clew, I have got it about right.
Having done the above, if reefing the sail is still stiff, then by deduction, the excess friction must be in your reefing line pulley system.
In-mast furling is great, especially for sailors of my advanced years. Unfortunately the required maintenance is often overlooked and then the system gets a bad name.
I can remember when the same thing was said of head-sail furling systems!

 

[Laysula]

We remove the furling winch assembly every couple of years. It’s not possible to service the furling winch without removing the whole assembly. Without servicing the winch the pawls stick and consequently the winch becomes free to rotate irrespective of the in/out pin position.
The first time we disassembled corrosion of the alloy made things difficult. An impact driver had to be used on the mounting bolts. Be wary of where you dismantle the bevel gears. The ball bearings are free to spill out.

We need to service our winch assembly and I am finding it difficult to make hear or tail of the Selden manual. As far as I can tell it seems almost certain that when I remove the locking pins the bearings will just fall out and drop down inside the mast. How do you keep everything together or do you drop the mast every time? The holes in the mast also look very small to work through although I suppose that mine is no different to anyone elses.

 

[Talulah]

The furling winch is mounted to a mast plate. On ours the boom is attached near the top of this plate so we disconnect the boom. On other boats the boom is connected to a separate plate.
Drop and remove mainsail. Slacken the inmast furling so you can disconnect the furling foil from the gear assembly. Use the access holes to slacken and disconnect the foil from the bevel gear assembly. Disconnect boom. Remove furling line. Remove 8 bolts securing plate to mast. The whole assembly then lifts out.
Do not under any circumstances try to dismantle the bevel gear assembly inside the mast. No need to drop the mast.

 

[MagicalArmchair]

Thank you all, I think I'll get away with it this season - over winter, once I have delivered the boat back, I'll take the whole lot apart and clean and grease the lot. We went out again and it was freer on Stb tack, with some wind in the sail to both unfurl and refurl it was a lot easier (we furled back up going down wind, with the main hauled right in on Stb tack, and that worked very well) . Following Seldens advice and rounding up and having the sail flog didn't feel like the correct answer to getting it nice and consistently rolled away.

 

[Laysula]

The furling winch is mounted to a mast plate. On ours the boom is attached near the top of this plate so we disconnect the boom. On other boats the boom is connected to a separate plate.
Drop and remove mainsail. Slacken the inmast furling so you can disconnect the furling foil from the gear assembly. Use the access holes to slacken and disconnect the foil from the bevel gear assembly. Disconnect boom. Remove furling line. Remove 8 bolts securing plate to mast. The whole assembly then lifts out.
Do not under any circumstances try to dismantle the bevel gear assembly inside the mast. No need to drop the mast.

Thanks for that. I can see now what I have to do. I was under the impression that I had to dismantle the bevel gear and bearings inside the mast.