in cockpit reefing - straw poll for single line or seperate lines

[niccapotamus]

we have a 30 footer with halyards back to cockpit. only two reefing lines in boom but a large powerful mainsail so three reefs in the sail.

I'd to start getting the stuff together to bring back reefing to the cockpit so it is all in one place (now we have sorted getting the main up properly )

I want three reefs ready to go due to the big mainsail.

Do you guys prefer single line or separate lines for tack and clew? I'm ambivalent and probably will go for what works the best.

it seems to me that separate lines are simpler and stand a better chance of working well despite the number of bits of string in the cockpit but I'm open to persuasion.

Whatever we do, we'll need a complete overhaul as our boom only has capacity for two reefing lines with jammers at the mast end of the boom so we'll need fairleads for the mast, new deck organisers to take more lines, some sort of welded structure at the base of the mast to take more blocks, and more jammers so quite a lot of hardware. We will probably go for high tech lines to keep friction down, and they come in brighter colours . Overall a lot of effort and expense so I'd like to get it right. It will take me the rest of the year to get the kit together so fitting will be part of next winter's excitement.

ta

Nick

 

[prv]

Our previous boat had separate lines for tack and clew. I liked this, and was a bit suspicious of the Selden single-line system on the new boat. But she has a windscreen with slots underneath for the lines, so the number I can have coming aft is strictly limited.

For the first couple of years the single-line reefs worked adequately; they never jammed as such, but there was quite a lot of friction in the system. Putting in a reef never presented a problem, but shaking it out could be hard work to pull the clew lines through.

Then this winter I got round to overhauling the boom, and found various worn and broken bits in the mechanism and also replaced the lines with 8mm polyester-jacketed dyneema (I originally planned to strip the non-handling parts, but changed my mind for various reasons). Now we have a lot less friction and shaking out a reef is much easier. I don't think separate lines would improve on what we have, and would bring some (minor) drawbacks.

In summary, unmaintained stiff old single-line reefing can be troublesome, but a new or well-maintained system (like yours will be) is fine.

Pete

 

[ditchcrawler]

My previous boats had single line reefing to the cockpit.It worked OK but the main problem was that it did not release very well when shaking out a reef and I often had to stand at the boom end pulling it out.This is due to the friction inherent in the single line system which probably could have been improved by better blocks etc.

My current Moody 31 has twin line reefing and it is very easy to haul in the reefs.I was concerned at first that there was no winch to the reefing lines.However I found that I could haul down the lines at tack and clew by hand which is helped by having a boom kicker which lifts the boom up so the the last bit of the clew is easier to do.

Both systems can work well with the right equipment.Some people do not like the amount of rope that is inherent in the twin line system but I do not find it a problem.

 

[prv]

helped by having a boom kicker which lifts the boom up so the the last bit of the clew is easier to do.

We don't have a gas or spring kicker, but I have always (on both boats) lifted the clew a little with the topping lift before starting to reef. I want to pull the sail down to the boom, not grind away trying to hoist the boom up to the sail.

Pete

 

[JohnGC]

If your boom has balance blocks/sliders and the 3rd reef is higher than 90% of the boom length, then you won't be able to single line the 3rd reef. My solution is to have single line for reefs 1 and 2. Reef 3 has a permanently rigged leech line which comes back to the cockpit, a trip to the mast is required to put in the 3rd reef at the luff (we just tie the reefing point to the boom with a short length of line).

I am quite happy going to the mast in the conditions that require a 3rd reef. Dealing with the leech at the end of the boom in the same conditions is a much more serious.

 

[niccapotamus]

If your boom has balance blocks/sliders and the 3rd reef is higher than 90% of the boom length, then you won't be able to single line the 3rd reef. My solution is to have single line for reefs 1 and 2. Reef 3 has a permanently rigged leech line which comes back to the cockpit, a trip to the mast is required to put in the 3rd reef at the luff (we just tie the reefing point to the boom with a short length of line).

I am quite happy going to the mast in the conditions that require a 3rd reef. Dealing with the leech at the end of the boom in the same conditions is a much more serious.

our boom is 30 years old and hasn't got anything sexy at all in it as far as I am aware - just a channel for a couple of reefing lines in the old fashioned way

 

[prv]

If your boom has balance blocks/sliders and the 3rd reef is higher than 90% of the boom length, then you won't be able to single line the 3rd reef.

True. Where I said we have single-line reefing on the current boat, I was only referring to the first and second reef. The third has separate tack and clew, which are kept rigged.

Pete

 

[niccapotamus]

We don't have a gas or spring kicker, but I have always (on both boats) lifted the clew a little with the topping lift before starting to reef. I want to pull the sail down to the boom, not grind away trying to hoist the boom up to the sail.

Pete

agreed. kicker off, topper on a bit, halyard down....

 

[Tranona]

As always there are pros and cons. The main problems are friction with a single line system vs complexity and masses of line with a 2 line. You may well find your biggest constraint is the amount of space available on the coachroof to fit in all the lines and clutches, particularly if you also want to take other lines (halyards, topping lift, kicker) back as well - plus of course the cost of the extra hardware.

Friction can be reduced by using good quality blocks, including blocks on the tack rings rather than just running through the ring, clean runs and dyneema lines. Suspect when you think it through single line will be more practical and cost effective.

 

[westhinder]

We have separate lines for three reefs permanently rigged. Works well, but I have to add the system was designed that way: boom deck organisers and clutches. It makes for a lot of string in the cockpit, but pouches can take care of that, provided you stow the lines after use.
Taking in a reef is easy, quick and without any drama.
Shaking out a reef is a matter of preparing all lines to be able to run out smoothly.
When we stow the sail we do not pull in all the lines but coil them and stow them between the folds of the sail, so there is no friction when hoisting

 

[Norman_E]

I followed this with interest as I have only two reefs, the second being a deep one. When I bought the boat it had to be reefed at the mast so I fitted a couple of extra clutches and set up single line reefing for the first reef, and twin line for the deep reef. The boom is not long enough to set up a single line system for the deep reef with a pair of back to back blocks inside it. Both my systems work well, but the twin line system is actually easier to use than the single line one. The latter has jammed on occasion. This year when I put the rigging back on I am going to move the spinnaker halyard to the mast, freeing up its clutch so that I can convert the first reef to twin line.

I agree with Westhinder about not pulling in the lines when stowing the sail, and do the same as he does.

 

[prv]

I agree with Westhinder about not pulling in the lines when stowing the sail, and do the same as he does.

Does anyone pull all the slack through to the cockpit (essentially, pulling in all the reefs) when stowing the sail? Seems a bloody daft thing to do.

Pete

 

[lpdsn]

We will probably go for high tech lines to keep friction down, and they come in brighter colours . Overall a lot of effort and expense so I'd like to get it right. It will take me the rest of the year to get the kit together so fitting will be part of next winter's excitement.

If you go for single line reefing make sure you go for decent blocks on the leech. You really don't want the block to allow the lines to twist as that will cause the system to jam up. Most blocks, even decent Harken ones, have a bit of plastic or very thin s/s to stop them swivelling. They don't survive for long under the reefing loads on a large main (mine's 56 sq m). Once the block is able to turn you'll quickly end up with the reefing line tangled.

My first reef is fine, but the second reef has two lines a couple of inches apart going about 25 feet or so up the leech. Fine in light airs but they can't half get twisted in the sort of weather where a second reef is needed - they need to be kept under tension, when hoisting the sail and even when putting in the first reef - best technique I've found is to pull the second reef in a little in advance of the first when putting in the first reef so there is never any slack in the second reef line - it's one of those three-handed jobs where you ease the halyard with one hand as you pull in each reef line with the other two.

I have considered getting blocks stitched to the sail, those expensive Antal blocks seem the bee's knees, but quite frankly the old mainsail isn't worth it.

I'll probably replace the boom in a couple of years and go for slab reefing, with snap shackles at the gooseneck to aid light-handed or single-handed reefing. I've seen that arrangement working well on a 50 footer.

 

[prv]

If you go for single line reefing make sure you go for decent blocks on the leech. You really don't want the block to allow the lines to twist as that will cause the system to jam up.

In the OP's 30 footer, it may be simpler just to forgo the clew blocks and pass the pendants through the cringles in the sail. Obviously this is a little more friction, but with slippery 8mm dyneema I'm not convinced there's enough difference for the blocks to be worth it. Certainly I'm quite happy with ours done this way.

Pete

 

[lpdsn]

In the OP's 30 footer, it may be simpler just to forgo the clew blocks and pass the pendants through the cringles in the sail. Obviously this is a little more friction, but with slippery 8mm dyneema I'm not convinced there's enough difference for the blocks to be worth it. Certainly I'm quite happy with ours done this way.

Pete

That may well work. (In fact, I might experiment with that approach myself this season.)

As I guess you already know, dyneema is seriously weakened going around tight bends - in that regard it is more like traditional fibres than polyester or nylon - so the OP should consider the strength of the dyneema. Full on dyneema should have enough excess strength, but some of the cruising dyneema sold doesn't have a breaking strain much beyond decent braid on braid.

 

[duncan99210]

If your boom has balance blocks/sliders and the 3rd reef is higher than 90% of the boom length, then you won't be able to single line the 3rd reef. My solution is to have single line for reefs 1 and 2. Reef 3 has a permanently rigged leech line which comes back to the cockpit, a trip to the mast is required to put in the 3rd reef at the luff (we just tie the reefing point to the boom with a short length of line).

I am quite happy going to the mast in the conditions that require a 3rd reef. Dealing with the leech at the end of the boom in the same conditions is a much more serious.

+1 exactly the system we use. Reeling lines are only ever taken in when reefing, when stowing the sail they are tucked into the sail bag.
We found shaking out reefs a real pain. When the lines needed replacing, I checked the Selden website and discovered they recommend 10mm line for the reefs: someone had fitted 14mm line, so it was little wonder that the lines didn't run freely. Since we fitted 10mm lines, things have been much easier and I'd not hesitate to recommend single line reefing over twin lines. There's more than enough string in the cockpit as it is!

 

[niccapotamus]

just a quick thanks to everyone has replied.

digesting.

thanks v much

 

[Iain C]

Does anyone pull all the slack through to the cockpit (essentially, pulling in all the reefs) when stowing the sail? Seems a bloody daft thing to do.

Pete

I do!

But my boom is an old round furling version which has long been converted to standard use. There's no room internally for the reefing lines so they run outside through some eye straps. If it's just an overnighter I just tuck them in the stack pack, however if I'm putting the boat to bed on the mooring I'll pull it all through otherwise next time I go sailing it will all be dangling like telephone wires in the summer. My system is pretty friction free, I can hoist from the cockpit just by pulling the halyard and the reefs fall out...I just do the last foot with the winch.

Obviously with my boom I have separate clew and tack lines...works fine for me.

 

[GrahamM376]

We have single line on reefs 1 & 2 and separate lines on 3rd. Separate much less friction and, as we rarely use 1, may bin that and convert 2 to separate lines as well.

 

[sadlerbob]

I have separate three line reefing. It's easy to reef and to shake out but its a lot of string.

If you look at my coach roof there are
Clutches for each.

6 reefing lines
1x Cunningham
1x Main halyard
2x kicker


Then clutches for
2x headsail halyards
1x spinaker halyard
1x Pole up haul
1x Pole down haul
Uncle Tom cobly clutch

So as you can imagine with all this deck hardware a single line reefing system would make it simpler plus a huge saving on organisers, turning blocks/sheaves and clutches etc. The trade is friction.

As a previous poster mentioned my boat is set up for this with all hardware in situ.