Idiot in a RIB Yesterday

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If (as proposed) the commercial boats have 'right of way', how do you know where they're going to go? Whatever action you take, or don't take whether its early or not - you could be standing into the path of the commercial vessel.

I don't see it as workable, particularly for boats whose speed is far less than the commercial boats they're supposed to avoid. Its a nonsense suggestion.

Rick
 
Rick

Can you tell me what is nonsense.

Are you saying taking early and obvious avoidance of a collision situation is nonsense? It's was certainly taught in the RYA courses I did many moons ago.
 
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Rick

Can you tell me what is nonsense.

Are you saying taking early and obvious avoidance of a collision situation is nonsense? It's was certainly taught in the RYA courses I did many moons ago.

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No, I'm saying that Froggie's suggestion of enshrining absolute right of way to commercial vessels is nonsense. Sorry for any confusion.

Edit: cleaned up the quote I left in the previous post to help clarify!

Rick
 
I think your last point is particularly relevant and sometimes forgotten by people with mobo only backgrounds.

In open water a large ship doing 25 knots has far more ability to control the situation than a raggie doing 5 knots. When crossing things like shipping lanes in a raggie it really is like playing chicken on the motorway, you just don't have the speed to control the situation.
 
Why don't you try it on the roads first. Commercial traffic would have right of way over pedestrians at a zebra crossing but leisure traffic wouldn't.

Much easier to monitor the trial on land. If it works it could be implemented at sea too.
 
we dont know that the rib kept going on the basis of collregs. He probably kept going bcz he thought he could nip in front, only to find he misjudged just how fast the red funnel was going. And if you are not familiar with them, that is not at all surprising.
 
And we don't know anything about the geometry of the situation: was the RIB crossing from right to left or left to right? There's a 50:50 chance that he was crossing from right to left, in which case it was the ferry that was infringing the colregs.

And the idea of commercial has right of way over leisure is plain barking. Why should a cruise ship, full of fat americans on holiday, take precedence over a yacht full of would-be commercial yachtmasters, skippered by a professional? Why should a 20 foot ferry licensed by the local authority to carry not more than 12 foot passengers across a river take precedence over the brand new 30 metre motor yacht? etc etc.
The main thing wrong with the existing colregs is that people insist on making up their own "improvements".
 
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Very sensible sugestion and bloody good idea

Trouble is would any PWC peeps read it? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Yup just have , good and bad in all water users it's the minority that spoil it for the majority don't you think.
Tim
 
Agree the common sense approach in relation to avoiding "big stuff" makes sense and is common practice, but outside of restricted channels may be "legally" optional depending on the circumstances under the current colregs.

I advocate a clear and simple change where in ALL circumstances small leisure vessels, powered and sail should ALWAYS "give way" to commercial shipping, and such traffic be legally obilged to take suitable measures to ensure it is well out of the way of commercial shipping.

I know the sensible majority concede on the pure colregs and keep well clear of "the big stuff" irrespective of who is the stand on vessel, but clearly there are plenty of plonkers who don't, or just cut it too fine, especially some small fast craft and some sail craft.

The colregs are clearly out of date and need to be simplified for the lowest common denominator.
 
Imho the Colregs shouldn't be changed. Proposals like yours aren't thought through enough, whereas the colregs are. At night you see a big blob on your radar in the med. How do you know if it is a commercial ship or a private superyacht? Or you see two identical 80m superyachts in daylight: one is on charter so commercial, the other is owner private use. How do you tell the difference? Maybe you're going to redefine commercial and non commercial? What does "well" out of the way mean, if you're proposing to make it law?

The existing colregs are mostly fine imho. A small minority of boaters should observe them better
 
A "raggie" with an engine is as maneoverable as a displacement mobo, the issue can be the attitude and willingness. Crossing a busy TSS I would keep the engine running and available as indeed in any close quarters situation. It's not that difficult to motor or sail perpendicularly away from the path of an oncoming ship. The logic of "power gives way to sail" emminated from the days of large commercial sail clippers, but surely nowadays the spirit of "power gives way to sail" is that leisure motor vessels give sufficient sea room to sail vessels for obvious reasons, but hardly that an 80,000 tanker out at sea should have to manouver because some indecisive fool in a yacht is avoideably in his way.
 
Technology and new regs could come hand in hand. In your example of a target in the med, it's digital identity would indicate it's class, size etc. A sort of low cost marine TCAS could be programmed to even advise "give way" vessels of conflicts with "stand on" vessels. I'm happy with the colregs except for a revision of the "food chain" as suggested giving commercial shipping right of way over leisure power or sail, just as sail has over power currently.
 
Of course, I am sure that the "idiot" was just that but I must confess to being amazed at the speed at whcih the Red Jet passes through Southampton Water amongst heavy traffic. It does go f....... fast (38+knots?) and keeping out of its way is beyond many yachts. I have always been impressed by the Jet's willingness to avoid pretty much everyone but I guess some close encounters are inevitable.
 
Yep can confirm as a raggie that keeping out of the way of the Red Jet is all but impossible. Last time he passed within 50 metres of me at a speed of 36 knots (from AIS). Was seriously concerned as he was coming straight at me, but what could I do at 3 knots (which is all the boatspeed I had in the light winds)??
 
I still say you need to think this through much better. So you propose small leisure vessels give way to commercial ships not pleasure ships. And the only way to distinguish an 80m commercial superyacht and an 80m private suoeryacht is to buy an electronic device? So every 25 foot peche promenade is going to have to buy one of these gizmos? At even £100 each, do you think that's fair?

And suppose there are a few of these commercial and private yachts all trotting around at the same time. The electronic gizmo might tell you there are 3x commercial and 3x pleasure. Highly likely in the Med summer/Caribee winter. How is the poor small boater supposed to tell which of the 6 is which? They all look like big wedding cakes. Or at night they all look like radar blobs.

Maybe they should be displayed graphically, overlaid on chart, on a daylight viewable screen? So that's £1,000 per 25 foot boat to install.

No, this idea is nuts. The food chain should stay as is, becuase it allows stand on and give way vessels to be distinguished instantly, using eyeballs. The massive ship can steer around the sailboat in open waters. They have 60mile radar in any case so they have plenty of notice. The sensible small sailboat will make sure not to be in the way, in any case
 
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The food chain should stay as is, becuase it allows stand on and give way vessels to be distinguished instantly, using eyeballs.

[/ QUOTE ]Just introduce one extra layer in the food chain with a day shape and night lights that can be "distinguished instantly, using eyeballs". The technology thing can be down the road. A small change with a big safety dividend.
 
My concen withyour idea would be, that as some commercial shipping is already poorly operated with suspect watch keeping, giving them an assumed "right of way" would give them an excuse for showing little regard for smaller craft.
Regards mikej
 
Small change? Fitting these lights and shapes to say a million commercial vessels at an agreggate cost of let's say a billion pounds, then educating 10million pleasure boat users in 50 languages what they mean? (And all that presupposes the countries involved will all agree, which is a separate point, granted). All for a supposed big safety dividend on which opinion will be divided...
 
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