Idiot in a RIB Yesterday

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GRR

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Returning to the Isle of Wight yesterday evening by Red Jet ( 17:45)

half way up Southampton Water the craft had to stop violently because an idiot in a RIB decided to cut across in front.

There were a lot of toxic remarks from the passengers about "boating types"
 
One of the reasons colregs need to be changed to give legal priority to commercial shipping over small leisure craft. Existing colregs have too many loop holes out of context with the modern maritime "real" world.

<u>Suggested new food chain hierarchy</u> /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif<ul type="square">[*]Not under command
[*]Constrained by draft / restricted in ability to maneauver
[*]Commercial shipping / ferries, etc
[*]Commercial Fishing vessels
[*]Leisure Fishing
[*]Leisure Sail
[*]Leisure Power > 7m
[*]Small fast craft (ie PWCs, tenders, <=7m)[/list]
 
Very sensible sugestion and bloody good idea

Trouble is would any PWC peeps read it? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Would be hard to tell a 6.9m sportsboat from a 7.1m one when you're out at sea. Also how would you tell the difference between say a sportsfisher being used for cruising and one being used for fishing. The same sportsfisher could, theoretically, fall into any one of four categories if it is around 7m. How would the other skipper know which category they deem themselves in at that particular time?
 
Yes neale, good point, I thought of that but didn't want to clutter my original post. Day shapes and lights would need to be revised/expanded so folk could tell the class of vessel rather than have to make judgements as to size, etc. Once some practical coloured shape or sign is on the vessel then folks wouldn't have to guess lengths, status, etc.
 
Accepted, but even with a few shape to use now, how many pepes bother.

2 obvious ones are sailing boats never showing a motoring cone and fishing boats with permanently mounted inverted cones, even when in harbour.

I think the current setup is reasonable, just needs better understanding by all who go to sea. This is where the problems start as a RIB owner (and PWC's for that matter) has possibly had no training whatsoever. It's a good argument for compulsory training but that's a different argument /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
But do you not think that it is immoral for a 40,000 cargo ship, or ro-ro ferry to have to alter course or slow to avoid a tiny leisure vessel crossing their bows claiming to be the "stand on" vessel. Surely in this day and age it is right and proper for small leisure vessels to keep out of the way of commercial shipping at all times? In the example above wait for the ship to pass or pass behind the vessel. Pedestrians keep out of the way of cars after all, and cars give way to trains at all times, and controlled airspace isolates commercial air traffic from anemic stick insect cessnas and pipers.

I think that it is total loonacy that under certain circumstances we in our tiny little plastic GRP leisure boat can attempt to force an 80,000 ship going about it's business to be the "give way" vessel.

I agree the system should be clear and simple in order to work, but nowadays surely there can be an automated digital solution perhaps combined with a 3rd generation AIS type system which would remove the 19th century requirement to display shapes and signals. The current colregs are from the dark ages, and evolved from a time when commercial sail clippers dominated world shipping.
 
[ QUOTE ]
But do you not think that it is immoral for a 40,000 cargo ship, or ro-ro ferry to have to alter course or slow to avoid a tiny leisure vessel crossing their bows claiming to be the "stand on" vessel. Surely in this day and age it is right and proper for small leisure vessels to keep out of the way of commercial shipping at all times? In the example above wait for the ship to pass or pass behind the vessel. Pedestrians keep out of the way of cars after all, and cars give way to trains at all times, and controlled airspace isolates commercial air traffic from anemic stick insect cessnas and pipers.

I think that it is total loonacy that under certain circumstances we in our tiny little plastic GRP leisure boat can attempt to force an 80,000 ship going about it's business to be the "give way" vessel.

I agree the system should be clear and simple in order to work, but nowadays surely there can be an automated digital solution perhaps combined with a 3rd generation AIS type system which would remove the 19th century requirement to display shapes and signals. The current colregs are from the dark ages, and evolved from a time when commercial sail clippers dominated world shipping.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with that entirely and even with the current rules, I have never once stood my ground against a large commercial vessel. This is purely out of self preservation as anything else. Education plays its part here too. When doing the courses you will learn that you don't get in the way of big stuff as that would be putting yourself in danger. You don't interfere with big stuff in tight areas as they may be constrained by draught in general it's common sense.

I guess again it can be difficult to differentiate bewteen who is commercial and earning a living, and who is just out for fun. There are certainly lots of leisure boats that are bigger than many commercial vessels and there are certainly leisure vessels that look like they may have led a commercial life, (ie knackered). There would also be charter boats. Is that commercial? If it is when under charter what about when it is not? We could be talking about a sixty foot Sunseeker here, but you could possibly be giving them rights over the leisure sailing fraternity, that'll be sure to upset them /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
er, a leisure fisherman is not earning a living. Surely he is just a motor vessel either under or over 7m.

Or are we going to have different levels of leisure. Sorry, you are just sunbathing and drinking gin - to the back. Wakeboarding? Step this way sir...
 
I think that is dangerous.

We were in a situation on Sunday coming back from Beaulie across the entrance to potrsmouth (south of the spit fort) heading for the gap in the submerged barrier.

A white link ferry (much bigger than us) coming out of Portsmouth and running just outside the main channel. We were the stand on vessel as he turned we were on a course which, had neither moved would have ended in a collision. Far out, we had the discussion and decided we should 'stand on'.

Our other altenrative was do assume he would see us/care about us/couldnt do anything and make a sharp turn to port (against the col regs) or just stop and see what happened.

In the end, we were correct to go with the col regs as the Whitelink made a significant turn to starboard and passed us on our port side. This manouver probably started as we were still discussing due to the size of the ship. Had we tried to guess his action we would have put our vessel in the way of his 'correct manouver'.
 
And if you had been in Houston, you could have just pushed the levers forward and gone up to 35kts and got out of his way! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I appreciate that was not an option on the Elling! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
OK, but why turn to port at 8knts when you have the right to stand on and dont inconvienience the other vessel in any way.

Its on the fly adjustment of the rules where you have no ability to inform the other party of your descion to make it up as you go along that is dangerous.
 
The problem you have if you stand on is at what point do you decide the other boat is not going to give way. The later you leave it, the less options you have.
 
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