Ideas for week long cruise on East Coast

[slawosz]

Hi,
I am planning around 7 days sailing on East Coast, first half of July. Yacht is fin keel Sadler 25. For now, I am planning passage speed at 4 knots. Start point - Osea Island. 2 relatively young and fit people on board.

• The main priority is to gather experience with navigation, also during the night.
• Obviously, the weather will determine plans.

The dull plan is to sail Blackwater - Harwich/Felixtowe/Orwell/Stour - Ramsgate as many times as possible. The first time probably outside Kentish Knock, then crossing the estuary. We don't mind crossing the Estuary several times, just to gather experience and 'feel'.
The more interesting plan is to get to the Lowestoft, then back.

If the forecast will be very good, we think about something like Ramsgate-Eastbourne-Brighton. Or even further. Or maybe crossing to Boulogne-sur-Mer?
Also, we are thinking about Lowestoft - Ramsgate (or another way).

Also thinking about visiting Medway.
Would love to get to Woodbridge, but not sure if we can easily get in/out in one tide.

Regarding night passage, the first one will be probably Blackwater - Harwich/Stour/Orwell, then Harwich/Ramsgate (or other way round).
Exiting Medway during the night is also an option - looks 'easy' on the charts - but locals will surely give better advice.

What do you think about the plan?

 

[LittleSister]

I think crossing and recrossing the Estuary will be rather dull (unless the weather is such that it's terrifying!).

I think you are looking at charts of too small a scale! You could easily spend 7 days having a very nice time around the Orwell/Stour, Walton Backwaters and Deben, say, and still have missed lots.

Boulogne not now practical as first arrival port abroad or as a there-and-back destination, very sadly, as post-Brexit you have to check in to Shengen and get passport stamped etc, and the nearest place to Boulogne to do it is at the ferry terminal at Calais. That will take up a day to get there and back from Boulogne by public transport (as recently reported in another thread), and you must also check out of Schengen again when you leave.

p.s. a) Note re your night nav practice - the nights are very short around that time, and second week of July lots of moon to further reduce the darkness.

b) If you do decide to go backwards and forwards across the Estuary, get 'Crossing the Thames Estuary' by Roger Gaspar (Tillergirl of this parish) and do it each time by a different choice of the various routes identified in that book.
Home

 

[slawosz]

Thanks!

I think you are looking at charts of too small a scale! You could easily spend 7 days having a very nice time around the Orwell/Stour, Walton Backwaters and Deben, say, and still have missed lots.

The idea is to get as much practice as possible, as I can use less time to get to mentioned places over the weekends. Also, to get a feel of being on the boat - we have plans for longer passages, etc.

Boulogne not now practical as first arrival port abroad or as a there-and-back destination, very sadly, as post-Brexit you have to check in to Shengen and get passport stamped etc

Here, as owner of EU passport I need to check. In theory, I don't need to worry about it, but, the French border force might have a lazy day and give me hell citing non-existing regulations

p.s. a) Note re your night nav practice - the nights are very short around that time, and second week of July lots of moon to further reduce the darkness.

Thats better - I think. With better visibility I will have 'easier', at least I think so.

b) If you do decide to go backwards and forwards across the Estuary, get 'Crossing the Thames Estuary' by Roger Gaspar (Tillergirl of this parish) and do it each time by a different choice of the various routes identified in that book.

Yes, its an excellent book, and @tillergirl was very helpful with my passage planning here alread. I also have East Coast pilot.

 

[MoodySabre]

Heading from the Blackwater to Harwich at night - stand off a bit as there are pots. Once you have passed Walton and head north to Harwich there are lots of pots. Keep a close watch.

I also think that the Orwell and Stour and the Deben would make an adequate week. For Woodbridge look at the website for heights over the cill Tide Times – Tidemill Yacht Harbour. I draw 1.7m and leaving as early as you can it is possible to motor down the river and get out on that tide. An alternative is to pick of a buoy at the Ramsholt Arms for the night and leave the next day.

There will be plenty of nav if this your first trip and making it enjoyable and gaining that experience will make the next trip feel better.

 

[tillergirl]

Roger Moody is spot on re the pots. We did a night sail and we headed right out to the Wallet channel proper to avoid the pots.

Ditto re the Orwell, Stour and Deben comments as well. There is also the Backwaters.

 

[michael_w]

Weather permitting, just enough time to cross the North Sea to Roompotsluis, then with a bit of luck get as far as Willemstadt and return, I managed to do this over an Easter weekend, admittedly on a bigger boat. It was effin' cold coming home. Easter that year being in March. Nights are short in July.

 

[LittleSister]

Here, as owner of EU passport I need to check. In theory, I don't need to worry about it, but, the French border force might have a lazy day and give me hell citing non-existing regulations

No, you'll be fine in France with an EU passport. (But does your crew also have one?) You will need to notify your UK departure and arrival to UK Border Force, but this can be done by email and phone.

Have fun, whatever you do.

 

[Concerto]

I would certainly suggest going to Ramsgate and the Medway as good destinations. They are good day sails from your location, provided you use the tide and do not have the wind on the nose, so go to Ramsgate and then to the Medway. In the Medway you have Queenborough, which is worth visiting, or you could anchor in Stangate Creek. Alternatively you could go up river and either pick up a mooring at one of the many clubs or go to Gillingham or Chatham marinas. Entering the Medway in the dark can be confusing, but leaving at night and following the main shipping channel would certainly be my suggestion for getting night time sailing - and there are not fishing pots to worry about.

 

[stu9000]

Hi,
I am planning around 7 days sailing on East Coast, first half of July. Yacht is fin keel Sadler 25. For now, I am planning passage speed at 4 knots. Start point - Osea Island. 2 relatively young and fit people on board.

• The main priority is to gather experience with navigation, also during the night.
• Obviously, the weather will determine plans.

The dull plan is to sail Blackwater - Harwich/Felixtowe/Orwell/Stour - Ramsgate as many times as possible. The first time probably outside Kentish Knock, then crossing the estuary. We don't mind crossing the Estuary several times, just to gather experience and 'feel'.
The more interesting plan is to get to the Lowestoft, then back.

If the forecast will be very good, we think about something like Ramsgate-Eastbourne-Brighton. Or even further. Or maybe crossing to Boulogne-sur-Mer?
Also, we are thinking about Lowestoft - Ramsgate (or another way).

Also thinking about visiting Medway.
Would love to get to Woodbridge, but not sure if we can easily get in/out in one tide.

Regarding night passage, the first one will be probably Blackwater - Harwich/Stour/Orwell, then Harwich/Ramsgate (or other way round).
Exiting Medway during the night is also an option - looks 'easy' on the charts - but locals will surely give better advice.

What do you think about the plan?

I am based in the Medway and find it very easy in the sense that it does not get too shallow in the entrance and is very well lit. You can get to it on one tide from the Blackwater. After a long days sailing queenboro gives you easy all tide access ashore. The admirals arms microbrewery is a good pub. Or if you want it quite enough to hear the birds and enjoy the sunset stangate creek is a good anchorage. Further up are Gillingham and Chatham marinas. Chatham is lovely with short walk access to various bars and shops, but has got eyewateringly expensive for a stopover recently.

I swear by Navionics to get me from A to B and would not be without for a night passage. I can and have used paper charts but knowing where you are exactly takes a lot of the worry away.

Ramsgate is 6 or 7 hours from the Medway. I generally take the inshore route through the Gore channel as there is less traffic. It's another port I'm happy to come into at night. Ramsgate to Calais is another 6 or 7 hours.

However, the Orwell,stour and Deben are fantastic rivers with beautiful anchorages and marinas galore. If you are developing your skills I would spend a week on those three and do the Medway etc. Next time.

 

[johnalison]

Beware of tiredness at night. There was an occasion pre-Decca when we were heading for Ramsgate, and the E Margate flashing red buoy didn't seem to get any nearer. It was a long time before I realised that we were in the red sector of N Foreland.

 

[steve yates]

If its passage type practise you want, what about trying to get as far north as you can, eg a big jump from great yarmouth to grimsby or further?

 

[Daydream believer]

If its passage type practise you want, what about trying to get as far north as you can, eg a big jump from great yarmouth to grimsby or further?

Forget Yarmouth, but Lowestoft/Grimsby would give you a challenge as entering the Humber can be fun. try Hull as well.
Not much challenge to navigation in the stour/Orwell so just a visit to SYH or Shotley then move on to Lowestoft would be a good one.
Lowestoft/Brightlingsea can be done easily in 12 hours if you ride the tide & have fair wind. Trouble is that none of the places light ones juices for tourism.

If you like head south to Ramsgate via Swin, Sunk crossing, Fisherman's Gat.which takes about 8 hours.
You could then do Ostend (60 miles) & from there a good trip is Breskens, Flushing & the Walcheren Canal to Middleburgh. Much more of a holiday & a bit of lock, bridges & mooring between poles canal experience , which is good fun & great variety. It is a good way to improve boat handling skills. Back to Blankenburge & home . You will learn about tides V quickly.
If you are adventurous, do the milk run to Ostend.Best option in my view. Depart Osea at HW go with the tide to Longsand head. & time to get there at LW- 0.5 hour. Steer 127 degrees to Ostend. Arrive from the west & the tide will carry you to it. . Have some rest there, then do Breskens & up the Walcheren to Middleburg & back.. 90 miles to Ostend. get some night sailing, cross some shipping lanes - not hard- take about 18 hours.

 

[slawosz]

Lowestoft is on my list. One idea is to go Osea-Shotley-Ramsgate-Shotley-Lowestoft-Ramsgate. As you see it's quite stepped, with a long leg at the end. Maybe then Ramsgate - Medway - Shotley. But it will all be gradual, without pushing ourselves. The tourism is not very important, its just for sailing and preparing ourselfs for longer trips in the following seasons. In long-range I am looking to do (ideally) a non-stop passage to Scotland, and further north. I will also spend time fine-tuning the boat or discussing ideas for improvements etc.

 

[Daydream believer]

Have you worked out how the tides suit that itinery?

 

[johnalison]

Lowestoft is on my list. One idea is to go Osea-Shotley-Ramsgate-Shotley-Lowestoft-Ramsgate. As you see it's quite stepped, with a long leg at the end. Maybe then Ramsgate - Medway - Shotley. But it will all be gradual, without pushing ourselves. The tourism is not very important, its just for sailing and preparing ourselfs for longer trips in the following seasons. In long-range I am looking to do (ideally) a non-stop passage to Scotland, and further north. I will also spend time fine-tuning the boat or discussing ideas for improvements etc.

When we first visited Poland by boat in 2004 we were soon made aware of Polish sailors making epic journeys in boats that were, to put it politely, a little less sophisticated than those that we were used to. Things have changed a lot since then but I’m glad to see that you are continuing the tradition.

 

[slawosz]

Lowestoft is on my list. One idea is to go Osea-Shotley-Ramsgate-Shotley-Lowestoft-Ramsgate. As you see it's quite stepped, with a long leg at the end. Maybe then Ramsgate - Medway - Shotley.

I forgot to clearly write, it's a plan for good weather and good winds only. It requires 5 days with good winds. We also might mess the tides in our first passage and be much less adventurous later! I am well aware that Thames Estuary is considered very difficult place to navigate and I am taking this very seriously.

When we first visited Poland by boat in 2004 we were soon made aware of Polish sailors making epic journeys in boats that were, to put it politely, a little less sophisticated than those that we were used to. Things have changed a lot since then but I’m glad to see that you are continuing the tradition.

2004 was still time, when boat ownership in Poland was not cheap - salaries were small compared to Western Europe (average salary around 350 GBP before taxes), with almost non-existing second-hand market, not to mention complicated registration. Sea sailing was still a collective activity. Boats were cramped, designed to accommodate as many people as its relatively safe. So ideally as many people as berths. So 24 footer had 4 berth, 30ft 6, and a cramped and seaworthy 46-footer 10. And due to the nature of Baltic, cruises were planned to visit as many places as possible. Before '89, many cruises were 'internal' - started and finished in Polish port, with 7 days of sailing, despite of the weather. Such cruises were relatively cheap (also in 2004), especially on university or scout owned boats, I think back then (2004) most of the boats belonged to some kind of organisation like PZZ (equivalent of RYA), cities etc.
I grow up reading this stories in magazines or 14400 kbps internet - I did only one such cruise myself, in 2005. So the idea of non-stop sailing to Scotland is not remote for me, plus it saves a great deal of annual leave... However I know its not an easy journey, as there is lot of traffic there and not that much refuge destinations.

 

[johnalison]

Yes, I think most of the boats we saw then were owned by some sort of club or organisation. Carter 30s were the commonest and we met one or two crews doing their weekend change at Swinoujscie. There were also larger wooden craft with an oddly angled bow, looking very Polish. One of these scuffed our rubbing strake on leaving Nexo, but the skipper was Canadian. Polish harbours were great fun in those days, with makeshift moorings and harbour buildings. Electricity and water were always available and getting them often involved something of a performance, rolling out long cables or hoses, but always done very willingly. Things are very different now, though it is a few years since we could sail there. Swinoujscie and Kolobrzeg have quite sophisticated marinas, attracting many German sailors. I still think back fondly to the old days of managed chaos, and our frequent encounters with the immigration people, with not a single word of common language with which to communicate.

 

[slawosz]

Carter 30s were the commonest and we met one or two crews doing their weekend change at Swinoujscie. There were also larger wooden craft with an oddly angled bow, looking very Polish

In 80 Carters often were lacking engine! Big ketches too… exam for polish equivalent of day skipper had to be done on ketch.

….and our frequent encounters with the immigration people, with not a single word of common language with which to communicate.

I think they still might miss fall of iron curtain

 

[slawosz]

@johnalison Maybe you recognize one of those?


Both types took part in first 1973–1974 Whitbread Round the World Race.
The wooden one (Opal) did 3rd non-stop circumnavigation, from Baltic - probably the Baltic-English Channel was the hardest part

 

[johnalison]

@johnalison Maybe you recognize one of those?

Both types took part in first 1973–1974 Whitbread Round the World Race.
The wooden one (Opal) did 3rd non-stop circumnavigation, from Baltic - probably the Baltic-English Channel was the hardest part

I can’t say that I do, but maybe I have a distant memory of them. I think the ketches I saw had more freeboard, but the style, with a plumb stern and pointy nose is very typically Polish.