Ideas for a 25ft (ish) Cuddy

[matt13]

Im looking at upgrading from my Karnic 2050 at the end of the summer which was my first boat and has served us well but want something slightly bigger. Now we are not looking necessarily for a sportscruiser as we will not be staying away with the kids until they are much older when I will probably change the boat so really only need a Cuddy, but one "must have" is a proper heads to keep swmbo happy. I know that sportscruisers of the 25ft size can be a compromise hence I still want the sportyness and handling of a cuddy.

I know im probably looking at the American boats but wondered if anyone had any advice. Ideally looking at no more than 3 years old, diesel would be great but I cant really seem to find one that suits. I still want enough power for towing and friends onboard.

Any ideas folks?

 

[rafiki_]

We started in a 22ft Sea Ray cuddy. Great boat, but the cuddy was useless uless you were under 3 ft tall. The heads were always very clean, as they were unusable. After 3 months we traded her in for a 25ft sports cruiser, and were much happier.

25ft is big for a cuddy?

 

[beejay190]

Im looking at upgrading from my Karnic 2050 at the end of the summer which was my first boat and has served us well but want something slightly bigger. Now we are not looking necessarily for a sportscruiser as we will not be staying away with the kids until they are much older when I will probably change the boat so really only need a Cuddy, but one "must have" is a proper heads to keep swmbo happy. I know that sportscruisers of the 25ft size can be a compromise hence I still want the sportyness and handling of a cuddy.

I know im probably looking at the American boats but wondered if anyone had any advice. Ideally looking at no more than 3 years old, diesel would be great but I cant really seem to find one that suits. I still want enough power for towing and friends onboard.

Any ideas folks?

I recall looking at a Monterey 245 cuddy at Southwater Marine a few years back. Had seperate heads and a Yanmar diesel egine - think it was 6 cylinders. I should have bought it !

 

[enterprise]

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/speed-boats/rinker-246-captiva-cuddy-diesel-TMS074#

Something like this Rinker Captiva but I like the suggestion for the Monterey

 

[gjgm]

Im looking at upgrading from my Karnic 2050 at the end of the summer which was my first boat and has served us well but want something slightly bigger. Now we are not looking necessarily for a sportscruiser as we will not be staying away with the kids until they are much older when I will probably change the boat so really only need a Cuddy, but one "must have" is a proper heads to keep swmbo happy. I know that sportscruisers of the 25ft size can be a compromise hence I still want the sportyness and handling of a cuddy.

I know im probably looking at the American boats but wondered if anyone had any advice. Ideally looking at no more than 3 years old, diesel would be great but I cant really seem to find one that suits. I still want enough power for towing and friends onboard.

Any ideas folks?

I assume your budget is the driver not the boat lenght? If so, just search the net with your budget, and I am sure you'll get lots of different boats!!

 

[matt13]

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/speed-boats/rinker-246-captiva-cuddy-diesel-TMS074#

Something like this Rinker Captiva but I like the suggestion for the Monterey

thats a great spot enterprise, I hadnt seen that one.

I recall looking at a Monterey 245 cuddy at Southwater Marine a few years back. Had seperate heads and a Yanmar diesel egine - think it was 6 cylinders. I should have bought it !

I have looked at these as well, would the general consensus be to go for the diesel option, I could have up to 6 people on board so just need to know what sort of size diesel I should be looking for.

Thanks for the replies so far !

 

[duncan]

generally 240-250hp in a 25ft will do fine as far as load goes ie what the boat will handle weight wise such an engine will cope with. obviously performance is another matter - if you want 40 knots you will need a very light 25ft boat with such an engine!

also, whilst 6 people may represent 800kg, you may well have 350 in terms of fuel and water to consider as well (and then there's the kitchen sink which, by the law of cuddies and lockers, will find it's way aboard (1 every year....)

I am always reticent to recommend what I have as right (I am always much more convinced by the guy that says he got it wrong and would buy X next time instead of what he bought - few seem to say that here of course) but I have done a few hours/miles on Phaeton over the last 10 years and 250 diesel HP seems to work well with 25ft and 2500kg dry (probably 3300 most of the time)

 

[matt13]

generally 240-250hp in a 25ft will do fine as far as load goes ie what the boat will handle weight wise such an engine will cope with. obviously performance is another matter - if you want 40 knots you will need a very light 25ft boat with such an engine!

also, whilst 6 people may represent 800kg, you may well have 350 in terms of fuel and water to consider as well (and then there's the kitchen sink which, by the law of cuddies and lockers, will find it's way aboard (1 every year....)

I am always reticent to recommend what I have as right (I am always much more convinced by the guy that says he got it wrong and would buy X next time instead of what he bought - few seem to say that here of course) but I have done a few hours/miles on Phaeton over the last 10 years and 250 diesel HP seems to work well with 25ft and 2500kg dry (probably 3300 most of the time)

thanks for the advice Duncan, lots of engines for that size boat seem to be 160hp or 190hp for diesel and as you say I would want more like 240, I think by opting for diesel I am limiting my choices. I have seen pretty much the perfect boat which has petrol Volvo 5.7gi 300hp which I guess will be thirsty. Stats say2.5 mpg at 25 knots but I dont know if this is reasonable or not.

 

[duncan]

thanks for the advice Duncan, lots of engines for that size boat seem to be 160hp or 190hp for diesel and as you say I would want more like 240, I think by opting for diesel I am limiting my choices. I have seen pretty much the perfect boat which has petrol Volvo 5.7gi 300hp which I guess will be thirsty. Stats say2.5 mpg at 25 knots but I dont know if this is reasonable or not.

I get about 4.5 at that speed but beware such stats - what size gallon?, miles or Nm, and then of course there's the practical element of when do you get conditions that represent such ideals! My last 2 trips were Plymouth -> Poole in what started well enough but got steadily worse and worse (but we were going home) and Cherbourg -> Poole in a F6 Westerly. Neither would have been anywhere near 4.5; more like 3

Generally most (normal) people wouldn't run such distances in those conditions in a 25 'cos the crew would revolt! As said we were running away from the weather to go home in the first case, and I was alone in the other.

 

[Solitaire]

Give Ben a ring at Marina Marbella on 02380453005. I know he has a few good options
Both new and good brokerage Sea Rays.

I do sea trials for them and Sea Rays are good boats.

 

[landlockedpirate]

thanks for the advice Duncan, lots of engines for that size boat seem to be 160hp or 190hp for diesel and as you say I would want more like 240, I think by opting for diesel I am limiting my choices. I have seen pretty much the perfect boat which has petrol Volvo 5.7gi 300hp which I guess will be thirsty. Stats say2.5 mpg at 25 knots but I dont know if this is reasonable or not.

As I have said before, I'm not a big fan of diesel in this type and size of boat. The figures for the 300hp V8 seem about right. The fuel injected engines are much more economical, and at cruising 2.5 mpg is similar to a 28ft sports cruiser I had with the same engine. At WOT the figure will be half that. Lots of cuddies out there at that size (and seem good value), but while most have a seperate toilet area,it wont be a 'proper' moulded bathroom like a sports cruiser. FWIW I do like this style of boat, Mariah did some stunning cuddy boats (before they went all cheap and nasty), Searay, Four Winns and Chapperal do nice 25 footers as well.

As suggested, do a search on B&O for price and size, forget about the diesel, the fuel costs are a very small proportion of the running costs on a day boat.

 

[duncan]

As suggested, do a search on B&O for price and size, forget about the diesel, the fuel costs are a very small proportion of the running costs on a day boat.

You make a very big assumption here - not arguing that this isn't valid on an average case scenario, but for a few (and people on here aren't average as has also been discussed before!) it's not true.

That said I also agree that the right petrol unit, used appropriately, isn't going to be the miles away in terms of consumption at a steady cruising speed some might think either; but still around 25% on an equivalent drive unit.

Factor in the inevitable premium (related to purchase price) for the diesel and it's really a coin toss most of the time now.

 

[Nautorius]

Most decent cuddies are American boats, so will have a single large lump. If you can get a newer MPI Model then economy will be a lot better.

Think Chaparral 255SSI, Monterey 248ls or my favourite the Searay 245WE

An alternative if thinking Diesel is an Aquador 23HT, cuddy, head, galley and hard top with diesel running costs. A real capable craft.

Alternatively look at the Chaparal 240SE/Searay 240. Both pocket cruisers which look like a cuddy and have cuddy performance but have a bit of extra space down below.

I have has several boats of this type and I would place Hull design and sea capability as a premium requirement followed by a good layout and Quality Seats. Chapparal 205SSE was great, Chapparal 240SE was better. Maxum 21 had a useless hull. Aquador 23HT my favourite day boat/ocasional overnighter......and diesel!

paul

 

[diligaf]

I have had several Sea Rays over the years - IMHO if you can get a pocket cruiser in your budget then I would.

As Nautorious says the Sea Ray 240 is a great boat and well worth a look, they are more expensive than some but you gets what you pay for! Gets my vote! Good looking too!

http://www.searay.com/Page.aspx/pageId/10231/pmid/213251/240-Sundancer.aspx

The MPI units are now as economical as a diesel and so smoooooth - cheaper to buy by some margin too.

 

[rafiki_]

I have had several Sea Rays over the years - IMHO if you can get a pocket cruiser in your budget then I would.

As Nautorious says the Sea Ray 240 is a great boat and well worth a look, they are more expensive than some but you gets what you pay for! Gets my vote! Good looking too!

http://www.searay.com/Page.aspx/pageId/10231/pmid/213251/240-Sundancer.aspx

The MPI units are now as economical as a diesel and so smoooooth - cheaper to buy by some margin too.

I'm sorry, but MPI units are not as economical as diesels, they are at best 30% less fule efficient, an in real life probably nearer 50%. There are some fairly straight forward maths and sciences involved, which wishful thinking cannot overcome I'm afraid. However, the real calculation is whether the purchase price premium for a diesel is worth it for your usage. A diesel can be £5-10,000 more expensive to purchase, and that buys quite oa lot of petrol. However, when you eventually re-sell the boat, you will get the diesel premium back.

 

[Nautorius]

I'm sorry, but MPI units are not as economical as diesels, they are at best 30% less fule efficient, an in real life probably nearer 50%. There are some fairly straight forward maths and sciences involved, which wishful thinking cannot overcome I'm afraid. However, the real calculation is whether the purchase price premium for a diesel is worth it for your usage. A diesel can be £5-10,000 more expensive to purchase, and that buys quite oa lot of petrol. However, when you eventually re-sell the boat, you will get the diesel premium back.

I always say there is a simple rule on Petrol Vs Diesel (which is not perfect!)

If buying boat outright with no finance buy diesel as opportunity cost of cash at the moment given interest rates is bugger all. Then recoup on sale. However make sure it is not a Merc 1.7 diesel as those are problomatic.

If buying with a loan, finance then buy petrol. The extra cost of financing the diesel offsets some of the diesel saving.

Also small Sportscruisers/cuddies are meant for fun so go big petrol lump!

 

[petem]

How about a Cranchi Turchese 24?

 

[enterprise]

This one looks quite nice:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Searay-24...ower_Boats&hash=item45fc71fe11#ht_1564wt_1139

 

[matt13]

lots of options there to think about so thank you, I am not ruling out a sportscruiser just think that as I dont intend to overnight on a boat with the family for a good few years there is no point having the aft cabin, more interested in cockpit space, sportsboat handling and of course a proper toilet for swmbo.

The Sea Ray 240 I feel wont offer anymore cockpit space than what I already have and MBM did a group test of four 25ft sportscruisers a few years ago, the Sea Ray came last with the Four Winns 258 Vista top closely followed by the Monterey 250, so if i did go for a sportscruiser it would probably be one of those two.

Im going to wait until SIBS to view a few more boats where im sure my mind will change again.

 

[lisilou]

lots of options there to think about so thank you, I am not ruling out a sportscruiser just think that as I dont intend to overnight on a boat with the family for a good few years there is no point having the aft cabin, more interested in cockpit space, sportsboat handling and of course a proper toilet for swmbo.

The Sea Ray 240 I feel wont offer anymore cockpit space than what I already have and MBM did a group test of four 25ft sportscruisers a few years ago, the Sea Ray came last with the Four Winns 258 Vista top closely followed by the Monterey 250, so if i did go for a sportscruiser it would probably be one of those two.

Im going to wait until SIBS to view a few more boats where im sure my mind will change again.

Ok, we have a Monterey 250 and I have to say we find it perfect for our needs. It's usually just the two of us staying on her. loads of room in both cockpit and cabin. Decent, seperate toilet with sink (and shower head you can pull out to use but forget that...just not practical imo). The aft berth is perfect for storage when ur not using it for sleeps. All in all, we find her layout very good. Also, at 28ft, it allows us to go that bit further more comfortably. Prior to this, we had a monterey 218 lsc which was great as a starter but just too small to do more than 1 or 2 nights. We've just spent 2 weeks on the 250 and never felt cramped once! I've no experience of any other boats so I can only tell you what I know of the monterey but the 250 gets my vote. Oh she's 2007, single engine diesel and she cost 45k 2 yrs ago if thats any help. Don't know where ur based but give David at Southwater Marine a call if you decide to go the monterey route. Nice bloke and goes out of his way to help.
Hope thats of some help.
Lisa.